Ideas?

Alam Shah · 22nd February 2008, 06:15 AM

It looks like a praying man, reciting a "do'a" (special prayer). My 2 cents opinion.

Marcokeris · 22nd February 2008, 12:39 PM

Is the hole in the bottom round? It seems a hilt of mine with an old woman with arms in the same position (but i am not shure for keris)

Michel · 23rd February 2008, 03:08 PM

An other kris hilt outside of the traditional pattern !
Is that lady praying ? Is it a Christian nun ?
She wears a veil as long as herself but has her face uncovered.
Strange mixture of concepts, but the hilt is fairly well carved.
I have already shown this hilt in the forum but nobody could find where from it came and what it was supposed to represent. I found it in Jogjakarta in 1999 with other untraditional hilts as a swan.
The hole for the peksi is perfectly round and obviously modern (20th century)
I would appreciate your comments
Michel

RobT · 24th February 2008, 02:38 AM

To A. G. Maisey,
Is the figure praying or is he holding something in his hands? Strange, he has no belly button.
Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · 24th February 2008, 06:35 AM

Rob, I don't know what he's doing.

He might be praying. He might just be in a pensive pose. He's certainly not holding anything.

The major characteristic of this hilt is that it is craft work, it is not the product of a skilled carver, but something that an unskilled person has made to what I would call "village standard". It is definitely a keris hilt, not a pelecok handle.

What is the band around his head?

I'm not playing games here. I don't know what I'm looking at except that it is a keris hilt. From where, by whom, for what reason, I know not.

I acquired it in Jawa, but that does not necessarily mean it originated there, although that is probable.

As I said:- material for guesses--- but good ones.

Michel · 24th February 2008, 05:07 PM

I am sorry and I apologize for my impolite behavior.
I came in this thread like an elephant placing my hilt without explaining why I thought it was an information in complement to Alan hilt.
I did this very fast and without explaining my thoughts and when I read the complete thread today, I was shocked by my behavior. So sorry,excuse me.

The lady hilt seems to me as having a position very close to Alan's hilt. The hands position are not exactly similar but close enough. The face is not a demon face, in both cases, but is a real face, which is not often the case on kris hilts.
The lady hold a purse or something similar whereas the little lad on Alan's hilt do not hold anything but..
All in all both hilts have similarities.
I recognize it does not bring much answers to the question of Alan.
So I was probably wrong in bringing it into the discussion.
Sorry, regards
Michel

Tim Simmons · 24th February 2008, 07:56 PM

Alan I disagree with you ideas on village work. "Village work" is another one of those rather hackneyed collector terms. Look at how sensitively carved the gesture to the head is on that hilt. I will dare to suggest that primitive is not lacking in artistic expression or ability. When one comperes this example to many over done jewel encrusted gaudy examples perhaps you might see it in another light. Just compere the simple pleasing carving to the second example. I might suggest that the first example is an immediate personal response in a cultural frame work, where as the second example has been carved to please a third party. I confess to knowing nothing about this type of thing.

23rd February 2008, 03:08 PM	#3
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	What do you think about this hilt ? An other kris hilt outside of the traditional pattern ! Is that lady praying ? Is it a Christian nun ? She wears a veil as long as herself but has her face uncovered. Strange mixture of concepts, but the hilt is fairly well carved. I have already shown this hilt in the forum but nobody could find where from it came and what it was supposed to represent. I found it in Jogjakarta in 1999 with other untraditional hilts as a swan. The hole for the peksi is perfectly round and obviously modern (20th century) I would appreciate your comments Michel Attached Images

24th February 2008, 02:38 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 550	To A. G. Maisey, Is the figure praying or is he holding something in his hands? Strange, he has no belly button. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 24th February 2008 at 02:40 AM. Reason: new info

24th February 2008, 05:07 PM	#6
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Appologies I am sorry and I apologize for my impolite behavior. I came in this thread like an elephant placing my hilt without explaining why I thought it was an information in complement to Alan hilt. I did this very fast and without explaining my thoughts and when I read the complete thread today, I was shocked by my behavior. So sorry,excuse me. The lady hilt seems to me as having a position very close to Alan's hilt. The hands position are not exactly similar but close enough. The face is not a demon face, in both cases, but is a real face, which is not often the case on kris hilts. The lady hold a purse or something similar whereas the little lad on Alan's hilt do not hold anything but.. All in all both hilts have similarities. I recognize it does not bring much answers to the question of Alan. So I was probably wrong in bringing it into the discussion. Sorry, regards Michel

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22nd February 2008, 06:15 AM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	It looks like a praying man, reciting a "do'a" (special prayer). My 2 cents opinion.

22nd February 2008, 12:39 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Is the hole in the bottom round? It seems a hilt of mine with an old woman with arms in the same position (but i am not shure for keris)

24th February 2008, 06:35 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Rob, I don't know what he's doing. He might be praying. He might just be in a pensive pose. He's certainly not holding anything. The major characteristic of this hilt is that it is craft work, it is not the product of a skilled carver, but something that an unskilled person has made to what I would call "village standard". It is definitely a keris hilt, not a pelecok handle. What is the band around his head? I'm not playing games here. I don't know what I'm looking at except that it is a keris hilt. From where, by whom, for what reason, I know not. I acquired it in Jawa, but that does not necessarily mean it originated there, although that is probable. As I said:- material for guesses--- but good ones.

24th February 2008, 07:56 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Alan I disagree with you ideas on village work. "Village work" is another one of those rather hackneyed collector terms. Look at how sensitively carved the gesture to the head is on that hilt. I will dare to suggest that primitive is not lacking in artistic expression or ability. When one comperes this example to many over done jewel encrusted gaudy examples perhaps you might see it in another light. Just compere the simple pleasing carving to the second example. I might suggest that the first example is an immediate personal response in a cultural frame work, where as the second example has been carved to please a third party. I confess to knowing nothing about this type of thing.