Gorgeous genoui with rhino horn hilt

Jim McDougall · 22nd January 2008, 12:02 AM

Very good suggestion Emanuel, and it is true that the Italian trade indeed did produce considerable influence from early times in the Maghreb and throughout the North African littoral. It seems that there have been strong suggestions that the distinctly shaped pommel of the koumiyya derives from the pommel shape of the Italian cinqueda. In those early times such weapons might have come from either Genoa or Venice, both city states who were fiercely competitive for trade.
I wonder if the possible reference to Genoa, might have been used in other weapons in Maghreb regions as well, much as Emanuel suggests in the same parlance as 'firangi' in India, loosely meaning 'foreign'.

I am inclined to think that Italian bayonets would likely not be included, at least from colonial presence in the Sahara, but since they were of course present in East Africa, the profound trade may account for some possibility.

We gotta get the bayonet books!

All best regards,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 22nd January 2008, 12:07 AM

Excellent Teodor!! I just saw your post. Since I'm way not up on bayonets, I am presuming the Berthier is French ? It looks c.1890's to WWI, would that be right? What type rifles were these used on? Foreign Legion?

Thank you for posting this.

All best regards,
Jim

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22nd January 2008, 12:02 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,601	Very good suggestion Emanuel, and it is true that the Italian trade indeed did produce considerable influence from early times in the Maghreb and throughout the North African littoral. It seems that there have been strong suggestions that the distinctly shaped pommel of the koumiyya derives from the pommel shape of the Italian cinqueda. In those early times such weapons might have come from either Genoa or Venice, both city states who were fiercely competitive for trade. I wonder if the possible reference to Genoa, might have been used in other weapons in Maghreb regions as well, much as Emanuel suggests in the same parlance as 'firangi' in India, loosely meaning 'foreign'. I am inclined to think that Italian bayonets would likely not be included, at least from colonial presence in the Sahara, but since they were of course present in East Africa, the profound trade may account for some possibility. We gotta get the bayonet books! All best regards, Jim

22nd January 2008, 12:07 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,601	Excellent Teodor!! I just saw your post. Since I'm way not up on bayonets, I am presuming the Berthier is French ? It looks c.1890's to WWI, would that be right? What type rifles were these used on? Foreign Legion? Thank you for posting this. All best regards, Jim