AssadUllah Cartouche/Stamp

[rand]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Rand, I think the "fold line" is present. It is not filled. I'll look more closely, and try to capture it on film:-)
Also, I always pay attention to these lines/oclusions, as they indicate that the blade is folded, i.e. forged, and most good wootz blades do have them. Is it the reason you asked:-)

Hello Alex,

Reason for asking about the occlussians on the spine was because they can be an indication of origen and quality, as you suggested.

The photo of Artzi's wootz blade that most people think of as sham may be erroneous, there is very little published of early wootz blades that show the surface pattern to use as reference and what is currently assumed may be wrong.

rand

[ALEX]

Rand, this is Very Interesting theory and discussion. I'd love to hear more of your reasoning and opinion on the pattern, occlusion/fold line and origin determination based on above. And, in particular, an opinion on this sword.

[Jeff D]

Hi Alex and Ward.

You both are correct of course, on the lowly status of the dog in Islam. However i have been led to believe that the dog is a symbol of loyalty in Shi'a lore. Kalb'Ali meaning 'dog of the Exalted' makes more sense in this context.
I have seen the dog/wolf cartouche on only one occassion, although it was better executed than the posted sample there were similarities particularly the tail. Your example could be as discussed earlier, a poorly detailed lion and this is much more likely with the confirmation on the signature.
I think the dog cartouche is extremely rare for the reasons you both have mentioned.

All the Best
Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

Jeff, thank you for bringing in this information. That makes perfect sense for the dog to represent loyalty symbolically, and being a dog lover myself, makes me a lot happier than considering negative connotations for them
It is always fascinating to learn and understand more on the application of symbolism in the wider range of Islam that appear on these weapons.

All the best,
Jim

[rand]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Rand, this is Very Interesting theory and discussion. I'd love to hear more of your reasoning and opinion on the pattern, occlusion/fold line and origin determination based on above. And, in particular, an opinion on this sword.

Hey Alex,

Would you tell me the length of the blade in a straight line from tip to edge at hilt?

Thanks,

rand

[ALEX]

Rand,
The blade is 31 1/2, overall is 36 1/2, the width at forte is 1 1/8.

Also, let me entertain this idea: perhaps it is not a dog or lion but a TIGER!
I am not suggesting it belonged to Tipu himself but perhaps it had to do something with the concept-)

[ward]

I doubt that it is a tiger with Assad Allah on it. I always thought the lion looked like a frightened kitty cat but I know that is not the case. One of the important things to remember in Islamic weapons is that it is heavily based on tradition. That is why you see many forms and decoration unchanged for 100’s of years. A good example of this is the Arabic language. Since Allah gave the written form directly to Mohammed the words of god can not be changed. The alphabet and spelling has not changed in over 1300 years {approximate} The language has been added to but not changed.

[rand]

The symbol of the tiger has a long tradition in Islamic history. During the reign of the Mamluks the Sultan (they had different names for the ruler) had a special robe decorated with tiger stripes thas was a symbol of one of the Mamluk orders. Tiger was also a popular name, Babur, Tipu and the blazon of Sultan Baybars was a tiger. In Mongolian and Uyghhur bars means tiger. Have often wonder if they have been any mis-translations for the word tiger. There are references to tiger, lion and panther relating to bravery and tenaciousness in Islamic history.

rand

[ward]

Assad Allah= Lion of God

why would you have a picture of anything else ? If it did not have assad written on it I could see a tiger or cat but this is not the case