Jalak Budo

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Raden,....

On the "word forming" also complicated. In "church cemetery" case, "kerk hoff" had changed as "krekop". But in Yogyakarta, there is a famous bridge that called "kreteg kewek" or "kewek" bridge. "Kewek", derived from the dutch word "kerk weg" to mention the bridge in the "church way"....

Event the famous street in Yogyakarta, "Malioboro". Is it original Javanese name? Does it come from the word "Marlboro", the famous fort of Marlboro? And why not "Vredeburg"? If you look at the reality that Fort of Vredeburg is in Malioboro street?

Ganjawulung

dear Gonjo,

I still believe that all "slippery" Jawa words have their roots as you elabotaed above.

In the most extrem example is "Malioboro" street. In my opinion, it should refer to Dutch language and culture rather than English ones. It should not refer to the famous fort of Malboro. Yes, even the was a short era of English occupation during Raffles expedition. In this era, "Pakualaman Castle" lost very sacred keris "Kiai Gumarang" after defeated by Raffles soldiers. Then, the Prince of Pakualaman went to Semarang to beg the keris mentioned above. After Raffles' Lieutenant gave that keris back to Prince Pakualam, the name was changed from "Kiai Gumarang" to "Kiai Wewe Putih". Litteraly, "Wewe Putih" means a white female ghost. It is very famous ghost in hilly countryside. But, Wewe Putih in this case daesnt mean what Jawa people beleive in one ghost. It reffers to "Wewehane Wong Putih" (come from the donation of white people (Englishmen)). So, once Kiai Wewe Putih was occupied by English.

Back to Malioboro
Lets make a similiar comparation of words again as you did

Zuitenborg (original) = Ontosoro (Jawa) = it is Bogor city now
..........org (original) = Malioboro (Jawa)

I still have an assumption that Malioboro came from a dutch word which represent a significant place, situation or anything else at that time. So, it was not fallen from the sky/heaven. However, I dont know from what word either. Perhaps, someone who his mother tongue is dutch may help us.

Back to keris
I hope all kerislovers dont misintepret this discussion (Ganja v. Usmen) as unrelated topic in term of keris waroeng kopi. Hope this discusion gives benefits for a background when we talk further about keris in our beloved waroeng.

warm salam,
Usmen

[Raden Usman Djogja]

for additional opinion:

Zuitenzorg [?]
Zuitenborg (original) = Ontosoro (Jawa) = it is Bogor city now
..........org (original) = Malioboro (Jawa)
M......borg = Malioboro

if I am not mistaken "Borg" refers to "Little Castle"
There are two little castle near Malioboro street. First, on the right is Dutch Residence (opposite of Vredeburg fort). Second, on the top is Sultan Castle.

warm salam,
Usmen

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Zuitenzorg [?]
Zuitenborg (original) = Ontosoro (Jawa) = it is Bogor city now
..........org (original) = Malioboro (Jawa)
M......borg = Malioboro

if I am not mistaken "Borg" refers to "Little Castle"
There are two little castle near Malioboro street. First, on the right is Dutch Residence (opposite of Vredeburg fort). Second, on the top is Sultan Castle.

According to novelist Pramoedya Ananta Toer, in one of his novel, Bogor derived from dutch word "Buitenzorg", Raden...

Other dutch-indo words in javanese are: "pit" (bicycle) from "fiets", also part of bike such as "stang" (bar), "pedal" from (peddle). And "sepur" (train) from "spoor". And the "monumental" on word-invention in javanese is the naming of solonese traditional dress of "beskap" that derived from dutch word "beschaafd" (civilized). That's just to differ or "mockery" to the older style, mataraman style of Yogyakartanese that called "sorjan" (this is original javanese word). Solonese, in daily mockery often says, they are more "beschaafd" than Yogyakartanese. (Please, don't be angry, for the sake of keris knowledge...)

Ganjawulung

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

According to novelist Pramoedya Ananta Toer, in one of his novel, Bogor derived from dutch word "Buitenzorg", Raden...

... And the "monumental" on word-invention in javanese is the naming of solonese traditional dress of "beskap" that derived from dutch word "beschaafd" (civilized). That's just to differ or "mockery" to the older style, mataraman style of Yogyakartanese that called "sorjan" (this is original javanese word). Solonese, in daily mockery often says, they are more "beschaafd" than Yogyakartanese. (Please, don't be angry, for the sake of keris knowledge...)

Ganjawulung

dear Ganja

Yes, you are right for "buitenzorg". Thanks.

For me no hartfeeling about those mockery words. Interestingly, the rivalry between Solonese and Jogjanese were/are very broad: most of every aspects. They tend[ed] to make differences. Perhaps, it was the manifestation of the struggle of power/influence. What consequences were that situation for keris world/development?

For instance, in other thread we had long discusssion about "mBesut"ing v. preserving keris. Solonese's v. Jogjanese's way. Both ways are supported by philoshipical, technical and even spiritual reasons. Then, my question is whether those phil, tech and spirutual reasons came before or after the different action. Reflecting to the rivalry between two societies, there is an open opportunity that it was because "Solo wanted to be different from Jogja, vise versa". The explanations to support the action came latter.

as X file serial film, if the real situation like it (that the different approach to care of keris is the result of power/influence struglle), the truth is out there. Both were/are destructing ways. The right way is still in search (perhaps one of them through this waroeng. who knows )

warm salam,
Usmen