Musketeers/ Rifleholders

[rand]

Signature made a little clearer....

rand

[fernando]

Hi Rand.
Let me talk some nonsense.
Maybe trying a different aproach, by re focusing the eyes on the piece.
Why not the barrel having being made at an early stage, for flint or miquelete action, and later mounted on a new stock, with a percussion made lock coming with it. This would explain the decoration on the barrel being different than on the lock and tab, as also giving a more plausible date for both lock and barrel.
Fernando

[rand]

Hey Fernando,

Don't think you suggestion is nonsense at all, its a definate possibility. Would want to keep in mind that there would be a maker who specialized in locks, another in barrels, another in stocks and so forth.

How would you explain the percussion lock being put onto a stock where a miquelet lock was?

If the lock maker can be identified and be dated nearer the middle of the 19th century that would clear the way for more speculation. Either way its a fascinating puzzle to unfold.

rand

[Jens Nordlunde]

Rand, you have a fantastic collection – thank you for sharing.

When it comes to tulwars, several people were involved in making them; one made the blade, one the hilt, and one the outline of the decoration and another one made the decoration. Knowing this it is not difficult to see that it is more than likely that several craftsmen have been involved in making such a rifle, and like with the swords, parts of the rifle are likely to have been used, and reused over a longer period.

[fernando]

Hi Rand

I know you are completely aware of the following, but here i go:

Usually when you want to convert a flint or miquelete gun into percussion, you adapt the existing lock by taking some parts and changing others, like the cock. This way you leave the old lock plate in its particular stock wood inset.
However some times the only part you want to save is the barrel, due to its quality or sentimental reason and, in such case, the new stock is configured to allocate the new system lock plate. The only actual alteration is on the barrel, that has to receive a new type of fire hole.

I think your gun falls in this second version.

I am posting pictures of both versions, from my junk collection.
The first is a Spanish miquelete hunting gun, very much worn, with very old repairs, converted to percussion. Around 1830 massive quantities of muskets and pistols were converted to percussion, both military and civilian.

The second example is a Portuguese clavina, dating from the Napoleonic invasions, with a ( extremely short ) barrel originated in a flintlock action and later fitted into a barrel with a percussion lock.

Both these modifications were in principle a regional civilian work.

Naturally these pieces had an agitated life and have a long story to tell, but by no means they can compare to your luxury rifle.

Kind regards
Fernando

[fernando]

The clavina

[Battara]

Wonderful pieces folks, many thanks for sharing these!

[rand]

Originally Posted by fernando

The clavina

Correct me if I am wrong, but believe the type of percussion lock that is on the Clavina dates prior to 1835.

rand

[rand]

Originally Posted by fernando

The clavina

Hey Fernando,

Found a reference for the back action percussion lock and its stated that the earliest forms of this style date from 1835-1840.

http://www.muzzleloaders-etcetera.co...w_of_locks.htm

You need to scroll down to the percussion locks.....

rand

[rand]

Originally Posted by rand

Signature made a little clearer....

rand

Have a translation now for the signature on the lock plate. Was told it was difficult to read, that is not to surprising when you consider the tallest letter is only about 1/8" in height and the entire signature is about 1/4" in width.

Its Farsi and reads," Amal-e Marsim" , translation thanks to Manouchehr

Could not find a reference for this signature, thats not uncommen, most signatures are not cataloged or published. Would have been very helpful to have known what time period this man worked.

rand

[archer]

Rand, Here is a shot from Topkapi Palace in Istanbul. Sure looks like a not too distant relative of your piece.
Regards, Steve

[rand]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting the photo's of the firearms in Topkapi Palace. They are both Turkish, the firearm below is a miquelet lock mounted on a Turkish stock. The rifle on the top has a flintlock action mounted on a European style stock. Both rifles are profusely ornamented with Turkish designs and most likely all parts are Turkish manufacture.

The Miquelet lock was the predecessor of the flintlock but never took hold in the Islamic countries where the miquelet lock remained the action of choice. This may because it had fewer parts making it more servicable.

The percussion lock was a huge jump in reliability and safety, it would have been very sought after by those that knew about it.

rand