Sword ID Help Needed

RSWORD · 2nd October 2007, 08:55 PM

Would it be possible to get a couple of close up shots of the blade? The writing looks Asian but the handle and scabbard are atypical of anything I am familiar with. The blade could be a nice old blade so close up shots might reveal the qualities of the steel.

Robert · 2nd October 2007, 09:34 PM

These are the best that I could do with the camera that I have. Hope they help.

Robert

Andrew · 2nd October 2007, 09:42 PM

Robert, try rotating the writing 180*. I can't translate, but some of the characters are upside-down.

Robert · 2nd October 2007, 09:53 PM

Hi Andrew,
Thank you for letting me know. I had no idea that I posted the writing upside down.

Robert

RSWORD · 3rd October 2007, 03:11 AM

The blade very well may be an old Chinese Jian blade. The diamond shape cross section plus the bottom picture hints at an inserted edge and there seems to be some hints of lamination in the blade especially near the hilt. The point, however, is much more tapered than is typical and may be the result a slightly longer blade being reshaped or shortened due to tip damage. The handle and scabbard are unique but seem to show some age and may point to a small ethnic group. I like the blade. It has a certain stoutness to it!

Robert · 3rd October 2007, 04:24 AM

RSWORD,
Thank you for the information. What would be the best way to tell if it has an inserted edge ? Would etching the blade with lime juice help or would that be a bad idea? Thanks again.

Robert

RSWORD · 3rd October 2007, 01:23 PM

Hi Robert,

If you look at your bottom picture and then look at the bottom edge you can see that the very edge is showing up slightly lighter in color than the body of steel. You can also see, if you look real close, a faint "line" or "hamon" which is visible to my eye in that sunlight you took the photo. I do not recommend lime juice for this blade. If you wanted to give it an etch to see what may pop out I would recommend using a hot vinegar etch, taking your time and watching closely along the edges for a "hamon" and also looking at the body of the blade near the ridge line for any subtle lamination. Look at the blade closely in sunlight in those areas and you should be able to see what I am seeing in your pictures. If you do decide to do an etch please share the results!

DaveA · 19th October 2007, 08:52 PM

Hi Robert,

I may have found you some answers. I have attached your image of the writing for reference.

My daughter is fluent in Japanese and took at look at the writing. Here is what she wrote back:

Quote:

"This is very old, fancy writing. The second character (far right column down) means I, or myself, the third character (below that one) could mean rice paddy, a common component of many Japanese names ("da"). HOWEVER, the character below rice paddy is part of the word "nihon" which means Japan, and that makes me think the rice paddy character is really the "ni" part of nihon, and just written in a really old fashioned way that's missing a stroke. The first column is probably the guy's name..the first two characters are "correct" and "fat," but there's probably an alternative meaning for the fat one. correct is pronounced tadashi and fat is futo. i can't read the last character. So the guy's last name was Tadashi and his first name was like fat something, maybe like "bountiful harvest."

Maybe now armed with this information you and other forum members can zero in on a better identification.

Best of luck,

Dave A.

Robert · 19th October 2007, 10:48 PM

Dave,
I cannot thank you and your daughter enough for your help in this. Did she see the picture of the hilt itself or just my poor rendition of the characters? If she has not seen the picture of the hilt could you possibly show it to her as I could have missed something when I made an attempt to reproduce it in a larger clearer form or posting. Thank you again for you and your daughters help.

Robert

kai · 19th October 2007, 11:16 PM

The Kaso also crossed my mind but the blade of Robert's example is way too short to meet its intended purpose. Moreover, the carving of the hilt doesn't strike me as Aceh nor Sumatran in general...

Regards,
Kai

2nd October 2007, 09:34 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	These are the best that I could do with the camera that I have. Hope they help. Robert Attached Images

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2nd October 2007, 08:55 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Would it be possible to get a couple of close up shots of the blade? The writing looks Asian but the handle and scabbard are atypical of anything I am familiar with. The blade could be a nice old blade so close up shots might reveal the qualities of the steel.

2nd October 2007, 09:42 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Robert, try rotating the writing 180*. I can't translate, but some of the characters are upside-down.

2nd October 2007, 09:53 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Andrew, Thank you for letting me know. I had no idea that I posted the writing upside down. Robert

3rd October 2007, 03:11 AM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	The blade very well may be an old Chinese Jian blade. The diamond shape cross section plus the bottom picture hints at an inserted edge and there seems to be some hints of lamination in the blade especially near the hilt. The point, however, is much more tapered than is typical and may be the result a slightly longer blade being reshaped or shortened due to tip damage. The handle and scabbard are unique but seem to show some age and may point to a small ethnic group. I like the blade. It has a certain stoutness to it!

3rd October 2007, 04:24 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	RSWORD, Thank you for the information. What would be the best way to tell if it has an inserted edge ? Would etching the blade with lime juice help or would that be a bad idea? Thanks again. Robert

3rd October 2007, 01:23 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Hi Robert, If you look at your bottom picture and then look at the bottom edge you can see that the very edge is showing up slightly lighter in color than the body of steel. You can also see, if you look real close, a faint "line" or "hamon" which is visible to my eye in that sunlight you took the photo. I do not recommend lime juice for this blade. If you wanted to give it an etch to see what may pop out I would recommend using a hot vinegar etch, taking your time and watching closely along the edges for a "hamon" and also looking at the body of the blade near the ridge line for any subtle lamination. Look at the blade closely in sunlight in those areas and you should be able to see what I am seeing in your pictures. If you do decide to do an etch please share the results!

19th October 2007, 10:48 PM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Dave, I cannot thank you and your daughter enough for your help in this. Did she see the picture of the hilt itself or just my poor rendition of the characters? If she has not seen the picture of the hilt could you possibly show it to her as I could have missed something when I made an attempt to reproduce it in a larger clearer form or posting. Thank you again for you and your daughters help. Robert

19th October 2007, 11:16 PM	#10
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	The Kaso also crossed my mind but the blade of Robert's example is way too short to meet its intended purpose. Moreover, the carving of the hilt doesn't strike me as Aceh nor Sumatran in general... Regards, Kai