Keris and Hilt for Comment

ganjawulung · 26th June 2007, 02:16 AM

Thanks Shahrial,
This is for more comparison...

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 26th June 2007, 02:31 AM

And different with these other Sulawesi hilts...

PenangsangII · 26th June 2007, 02:36 AM

Dear Pak Ganja,

Your hilt looks like from Sulawesi Buton if Mr Suhartono is right. I think when discussing Sulawesi (keris, sarung or hilt for that matter), we ought to remember not to confuse Buginese with Makasarese, though generally speaking they are from the same stock. I guess we shouldnt confuse Javanese with Sundanese either.

ganjawulung · 26th June 2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Your hilt looks like from Sulawesi Buton if Mr Suhartono is right. I think when discussing Sulawesi (keris, sarung or hilt for that matter), we ought to remember not to confuse Buginese with Makasarese, though generally speaking they are from the same stock. I guess we shouldnt confuse Javanese with Sundanese either.

Thanks a lot, Penangsang,

And the two hilts, are they Buginese? Or Buton?

PenangsangII · 26th June 2007, 03:16 AM

Pak Ganja,

About the other 2 hilts, they are not clearly stated by Mr Suhartono, but my take is.

the 1st one is makasarese because of the conic pistol grip type & the other one could be South Sulawesi Bugis. But I could be wrong too.

Alam Shah · 26th June 2007, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

...This is for more comparison...

... similar to mine. Mine is mounted on a Peninsular Malay keris...

ganjawulung · 27th June 2007, 04:38 AM

... and not the same kind with this "chepot" (demi-god in wayang, Mas Bram knows it better) hilt. Just for comparison of the "bending" hilt...

Ganjawulung

PenangsangII · 27th June 2007, 07:13 AM

Salam Pak Ganja,

From your vast experience, where does this wayang hilt come from?

I thought I saw almost identical to this one i.e. demi god (rasaksa?) bowing before a king that was on sale here in KL. The seller told me it was Maduran Bajing or Bajang. If my Javanese is correct, Bajing means squirrel, and bajang is one of the feared rasaksa....

From your composition of the hilt & ferrule, I can also adduce (wild guess) that your complete hilt is of Sumbawa's origin

.

ganjawulung · 27th June 2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

From your vast experience, where does this wayang hilt come from?

From your composition of the hilt & ferrule, I can also adduce (wild guess) that your complete hilt is of Sumbawa's origin

.

Dear Penangsang,
Really not vast experience. Even on "luar Jawa" (outside Java island) kerises, now I'm learning from you. Regarding such unusual hilt like this, all I can do is just guessing.

I guess, this "wayang" hilt is from Java -- either West Java, or Central Java. And probably not Madura. That is regarding to the figure of "chepot" (or Bagong the youngest of four Pandawa clown-gods or demi-gods) which is so popular in most "wayang golek" (?) show in West Java. The "dhalang", the puppeteer, often speaks via Chepot figure. But in Central Java, I think, it is more Semar (the father of the clown-gods) who takes more role for the speaker. (Please correct me, Mas Bram, If you don't mind on).

The composition of hilt and ferrule, maybe not proper. I just waiting for the comments of you all. Really I have no idea...

Ganjawulung

Marcokeris · 27th June 2007, 12:36 PM

Dear Ganja
a rare nice hit!
I think it is from Jawa, but .... maybe also from Sumbawa....and the patterns coud be also from Sumatra

.
From a photo without selut or from a photo of the face alone maybe is possible to have better clues.

David · 27th June 2007, 01:32 PM

though it is not necessarily an indicator of origin the 'selut" looks very Sumatran to me.

Very nice hilt BTW.

Alam Shah · 27th June 2007, 01:36 PM

Hi Ganja, a unique hilt.

Cepot (Bagong), with a squat body and has very big eyes.
The ferrule (selut) is of South Sumatran type, Palembang comes to mind, imho.

ganjawulung · 28th June 2007, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I think it is from Jawa, but .... maybe also from Sumbawa....and the patterns coud be also from Sumatra

.
From a photo without selut or from a photo of the face alone maybe is possible to have better clues.

Dear Marco,
These are the fotos of "the hunchback of Java" you want to see...

Ganjawulung

26th June 2007, 02:16 AM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks Shahrial, This is for more comparison... Ganjawulung Attached Images

26th June 2007, 02:31 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	And different with these other Sulawesi hilts... Attached Images

26th June 2007, 02:36 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Bugis vs Makassar Dear Pak Ganja, Your hilt looks like from Sulawesi Buton if Mr Suhartono is right. I think when discussing Sulawesi (keris, sarung or hilt for that matter), we ought to remember not to confuse Buginese with Makasarese, though generally speaking they are from the same stock. I guess we shouldnt confuse Javanese with Sundanese either.

27th June 2007, 04:38 AM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	... and not the same kind with this "chepot" (demi-god in wayang, Mas Bram knows it better) hilt. Just for comparison of the "bending" hilt... Ganjawulung Attached Images

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26th June 2007, 03:16 AM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Pak Ganja, About the other 2 hilts, they are not clearly stated by Mr Suhartono, but my take is. the 1st one is makasarese because of the conic pistol grip type & the other one could be South Sulawesi Bugis. But I could be wrong too.

27th June 2007, 07:13 AM	#8
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Salam Pak Ganja, From your vast experience, where does this wayang hilt come from? I thought I saw almost identical to this one i.e. demi god (rasaksa?) bowing before a king that was on sale here in KL. The seller told me it was Maduran Bajing or Bajang. If my Javanese is correct, Bajing means squirrel, and bajang is one of the feared rasaksa.... From your composition of the hilt & ferrule, I can also adduce (wild guess) that your complete hilt is of Sumbawa's origin .

27th June 2007, 12:36 PM	#10
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Dear Ganja a rare nice hit! I think it is from Jawa, but .... maybe also from Sumbawa....and the patterns coud be also from Sumatra . From a photo without selut or from a photo of the face alone maybe is possible to have better clues.

27th June 2007, 01:32 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	though it is not necessarily an indicator of origin the 'selut" looks very Sumatran to me. Very nice hilt BTW.

27th June 2007, 01:36 PM	#12
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Ganja, a unique hilt. Cepot (Bagong), with a squat body and has very big eyes. The ferrule (selut) is of South Sumatran type, Palembang comes to mind, imho.