Good news /bad news Tulwar.

Pukka Bundook · 8th March 2007, 06:13 AM

Jim,
Thank you for the lengthy and detailed reply, and for all the information re. this sword and scabbard!
Thank you again!!

So it appears this sword has a Moghul style hilt, and was scabbarded in the Afghan region?, How fascinating!
I suppose it could have gone through a scabbard or two in its working life, each one possibly distinct according to where circumstance placed it at the time.
Re. the blade tip, It could have lost about an inch, but not much more, unless the present scabbard was made after it had lost the tip.

Interesting thing about the scabbard, it appears to have been made for a left-handed person, as the middle fitting had the longer decorative side on the 'wrong' side. The wood also shows that this is the way it has always been, as it has a pale area where the decoration sat.
Also, the material covering the scabbard is overlapped and glued down what would normally be the 'out' side.

Would it be possible to hazard a guess as to the age of this sword?

Would be most indebted if you could!!

Thanks again for all your help,
Richard.

Jens Nordlunde · 8th March 2007, 03:51 PM

Richard,

You are very observant to notice that the owner seems to have been left handed, very good observation, as I am sure several missed it – like I did. The flower on the square looks very nice.

Jim's comments on the scabbard mounts are good, and give an indication of, from where the sword origins. I once had an Afghan pulouar and the scabbard mounts were like the ones on you scabbard, but they were not pierced.

Jens

Gt Obach · 9th March 2007, 12:11 AM

i think the steel removed from this blade was minimal... it was in good shape before sanding.. ... now a blade with deep pitts needing a total regrind..... may loose much more metal and may shift the balance point... ..

as for the importance of the balance point..... i'm not a swordsman... so take this with a grain of salt... i find a blade with a balance point closer to the hand is quicker and more gives good control.... this is why a decent fighting knife will have a nice distal taper.. it'll have a quick tip

G

Pukka Bundook · 9th March 2007, 02:57 PM

Jens,
I'll keep you up to date when I get to making the wood scabbard and top fitting, but it may take me a while to get at it!.....lots on my plate already.

Greg,
I agree that lightening the blade a bit moves POB back a bit and makes it faster, Only down-side could be it might not cut as strong. (less weight behind the stroke)........But then again, if it can be swung faster, this maybe compensates?

Jens Nordlunde · 11th March 2007, 04:54 PM

I just had a look in Damascening on Steel and Iron, as Practised in India, London 1892, by T. H. Hendley. In the book he shows a flower on top of the disc, looking very much like the one on your tulwar. He writes that the hilt is from Punjab, NW India at the time, and the scabbard mounts are NW Indian/Afghan – so it all seems to fit together.

Jim McDougall · 11th March 2007, 05:42 PM

Excellent Jens!!!

It really is amazing when all the pieces fit! Looks like this old warrior might have seen service in the Khyber. Now theres a piece of history, and very plausibly connected to the colorful times in those regions associated with the British Raj.
All the best,
Jim

Pukka Bundook · 12th March 2007, 07:08 AM

Jens,
Thank you for the information!
It all seems to fit together now, and seems very logical.
Very interesting Re. the flower on the disc, wonderful to know, Thank you again!!

Re. the book on damascening you mention, I found a copy straight away, In Germany, but didn't buy it..........Seller wanted $5000 and odd dollars for it!

Jim,
Isn't it exciting when things all come together, and we at last can know with a fair degree of certainty where a piece came from?
.........and this one appears to come from an area with quite a bit of history!
Very fascinating!
Am glad now I didn't just dump it in disgust when I first saw it!
Will be happy when it can sit in its own restored scabbard. I think they both deserve a bit of peace.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

8th March 2007, 06:13 AM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jim, Thank you for the lengthy and detailed reply, and for all the information re. this sword and scabbard! Thank you again!! So it appears this sword has a Moghul style hilt, and was scabbarded in the Afghan region?, How fascinating! I suppose it could have gone through a scabbard or two in its working life, each one possibly distinct according to where circumstance placed it at the time. Re. the blade tip, It could have lost about an inch, but not much more, unless the present scabbard was made after it had lost the tip. Interesting thing about the scabbard, it appears to have been made for a left-handed person, as the middle fitting had the longer decorative side on the 'wrong' side. The wood also shows that this is the way it has always been, as it has a pale area where the decoration sat. Also, the material covering the scabbard is overlapped and glued down what would normally be the 'out' side. Would it be possible to hazard a guess as to the age of this sword? Would be most indebted if you could!! Thanks again for all your help, Richard.

8th March 2007, 03:51 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Richard, You are very observant to notice that the owner seems to have been left handed, very good observation, as I am sure several missed it – like I did. The flower on the square looks very nice. Jim's comments on the scabbard mounts are good, and give an indication of, from where the sword origins. I once had an Afghan pulouar and the scabbard mounts were like the ones on you scabbard, but they were not pierced. Jens

9th March 2007, 12:11 AM	#3
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	i think the steel removed from this blade was minimal... it was in good shape before sanding.. ... now a blade with deep pitts needing a total regrind..... may loose much more metal and may shift the balance point... .. as for the importance of the balance point..... i'm not a swordsman... so take this with a grain of salt... i find a blade with a balance point closer to the hand is quicker and more gives good control.... this is why a decent fighting knife will have a nice distal taper.. it'll have a quick tip G

9th March 2007, 02:57 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jens, I'll keep you up to date when I get to making the wood scabbard and top fitting, but it may take me a while to get at it!.....lots on my plate already. Greg, I agree that lightening the blade a bit moves POB back a bit and makes it faster, Only down-side could be it might not cut as strong. (less weight behind the stroke)........But then again, if it can be swung faster, this maybe compensates?

11th March 2007, 04:54 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I just had a look in Damascening on Steel and Iron, as Practised in India, London 1892, by T. H. Hendley. In the book he shows a flower on top of the disc, looking very much like the one on your tulwar. He writes that the hilt is from Punjab, NW India at the time, and the scabbard mounts are NW Indian/Afghan – so it all seems to fit together.

11th March 2007, 05:42 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,458	Excellent Jens!!! It really is amazing when all the pieces fit! Looks like this old warrior might have seen service in the Khyber. Now theres a piece of history, and very plausibly connected to the colorful times in those regions associated with the British Raj. All the best, Jim

12th March 2007, 07:08 AM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jens, Thank you for the information! It all seems to fit together now, and seems very logical. Very interesting Re. the flower on the disc, wonderful to know, Thank you again!! Re. the book on damascening you mention, I found a copy straight away, In Germany, but didn't buy it..........Seller wanted $5000 and odd dollars for it! Jim, Isn't it exciting when things all come together, and we at last can know with a fair degree of certainty where a piece came from? .........and this one appears to come from an area with quite a bit of history! Very fascinating! Am glad now I didn't just dump it in disgust when I first saw it! Will be happy when it can sit in its own restored scabbard. I think they both deserve a bit of peace.