Bronze Age Weapons from Romania???

[Barrett Hiebert]

Greetings,

P.S. Please just read through everything, even the quote, because my replies to some quote got stuck in the quotes and I can get them out. I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out, thanks! Cheers!

Okay, I'll try my best to answer your question's as coherently and to the point as possible.

Jim McDougal:

[QUOTE]Interesting query you have posted, though it would be more approachable if you could be a little more specific. It would also be helpful to know what your perspective is on your search for information on these Romanian weapons.[QUOTE]

Thankyou for your interest. From now on I will try and be as specific as possible. Honestly, my perspective is to pick a culture, pertaining to my birthplace in Bucharest, Romania, learn about their ethnographic weapons, armour, and dress, even language (if their is any) and re-enact it, trying to be as historically correct as possible. I want to educate others who are interested as well.

I do have an interest in collecting antique items, but at the age of 17, money is very hard to come by.

Also, I adamantly believe that I should choose a culture where their is actual historical material to learn how such weapons were used, in conjunction with a shield, and armour. (Even if I need to use later sources, as they all apply to the same principle) I like the uniqueness of bronze and the look (as I do iron weapons as well), and find that their is a pragmatist streak in contrast, I do not have to teach myself (having no experience what so ever) to try and learn from the ground up how a sica, falx was used, and learning how to wield a spear is very natural.

I hope I have answered your inquiry.

Also, it is very helpful to know what progress you might have made already so that those who do respond do not duplicate what you already have.

I understand totally. So...I have gotten in contact with some fellow Romanian's in Romania, who are interested in historical re-enactment, but they are more interested in the widely popularized (like katana's ) Dacians, of which my interest has shrunk away for the time being. To that extent, I was introduced to Bronze Age Center and have been asking most of my question's their gaining well-respected responses.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Ag...topic=636&st=0

Here is a thread begun by me, that you may be interested in. Though...

Copied and pasted from this thread to save me some work:

Said by Brock H:

[QUOTE]Hi, again, Barrett. I'm back from supper and a quick check of a bookseller's website that I have bookmarked.

First, the good news. I found two books for you. They are part of the Prahistorische Bronzefunde (PBF) series. This is a well respected series of books on BA artifacts, mostly weapons and lots on swords. I have 5 of the books and can recommend them and others here will also know the series.

Now for the bad news. They are in German. Some of the series are in English or other languages, but most are in German including these two. If you can read German, well and good, although since they are techincal in nature conversational German will still make for a hard slog. Even if you can't read German, you can still look at the drawings and should be able to figure out such things as length, width, find spot and where located now (if known). Weights will probably not be listed.

They are also expensive. Each will cost well over $100 with shipping, maybe $150-200.

You do have some options, however. Try inter-libarary loan. Maybe a university will have a copy of one you can borrow. Try the on-line book sellers: alibris.com, abebooks.com and amazon.com. Maybe you can get a used or unsold copy for a reasonable price. Try e-Bay, maybe the same will apply, although you'll probably end up on the German version. Bite the bullet and get them from the publisher. I recommend ILL first.

The books are Die Schwerter in Rumanien by Tiberiu Bader and Die Kurzschwerter, Dolche und Streitmesser der Hallstattzeit in Rumanien by Alexandru Vulpe.

Sorry I couldn't turn up anything better right now. Try doing a google on "Bronze Age Romania" and see what turns up.[QUOTE]

I have the money to get these at the moment, but my priority is to pay off my mother, which my goal is to save up to 2000 dollars Canadian of which is going to be used to pay off for temper-caused breakages in the house. I have about 600 dollars left to spend. After that I will be saving up for such books, and then hopefully for a historical correct custom sword from Neil Burridge (or I will work on making one myself, .

The emphasis here is on sharing information so that we can all learn together and as noted, your topic is very interesting.

I greatly agree.

It would seem that the weapons of Bronze Age Europe and Asia have actually become an important factor in the study of the development of many ethnographic weapons as they are often key in thier heritage. One can see many similarities imbued in not only design elements and blade shapes, but often in symbolism in motif and markings that have quite ancient ancestry.

I see...when you say "seem", it makes me wonder, but I know that their is evidence of a development of ethnographic development and that I must recognize it and see it.

I know this might seem silly, but since being adopted and all, I've wanted to take a DNA test and see where my roots really lie, so I can get an accurate report on where to base my research, because I want to re-enact personally the unique weapons, and armour that were used by my ancestors.

It is the same for all the weapons that are prescribed here, they are largely Middle Eastern, and South Pacific Island, if I am not mistaken, and they are very unique and not very well known of, and not like the common rabble (no offence's meant) of "knight" armour and weapons which we see so much of. I in no way would never say no, your not allowed to be interested in such, but researching such history which is clouded and shrouded in mystery, makes its appeal much more interesting to me. Saying that, I wish I could learn how to use a falx, sica properly, have a teacher to supply me. I try and not get wishful thinking mixed and forgotten in fantasy, and try and stay true to history, and what historical souces we do have.

If you are searching for excavated examples of the weapons found in Romania, you are most likely directed toward archaeological resources and possibly contacting publications such as "Archaeology" magazine might offer some material on the subject . Although general in scope, Ewart Oakeshott's venerable work "The Archaeology of Weapons" (N.Y.1960) provides some very intriguing overview on the history and development of the weapons developing from the bronze into the iron age in these regions. I believe that the already mentioned Dacians, who were actually a branch of the Thracian culture would be key in focus and other cultures which diffused into these regions were the Illyrians from the south, the Scythians from the east and the Celts from the west. Via the Celtic influx, we might presume that swords and weapons of the iron age Hallstadt culture (with origins in Bronze age forms) may have entered the material culture of the early Romanians.

Yes, I am searching for excavated examples of the weapons found in Romania to lend punch to my research. I've never thought of that, but it is definately worth a try. I wonder if I could have the "Archeology" magazines adress or link, please and thankyou's. Also, I have read "The Archaelogy of Weapons" by Ewart R. Oakeshott, and was most interested in the first 2 chapters. And you are correct, the Dacians were a branch of the Thracian culture, but were a collection of tribes, as you stated, Illyrians from the south, Scythians from the East, and Celts from the west. It is interesting though to note, that the Celts could very well have an influence in the Halstatt culture and entered the material culture of the early Romanians, more so than the other tribes/cultures.

Sir Richard Burton in "The Book of the Sword" (1884), discusses the Dacian sword of the much later period of Roman times, but also refers to a bronze sword (p.262) held in the Berlin museum said to have been found at Pella in Macedonia, and suggests it may be actually from the Rhine Valley, also of course, Danubian ("Die Bronze-schwerter des K.Mus. zu Berlin" Bastian & A.Voss, 1878, p.56).He also notes the Hallstadt cemetarial excavations which provided key examples of bronze age and early iron age weapons attributed to Danubian-Keltic Alanni or Norician Taurisci.

Most interesting...I never knew such things, but isn't Sir Richard Burton's books "The Book of the Sword" greatly outdated, and many of its statements debateable out outdated? Also, thanks for the "Die Bronze-schwerter des K.Mus. zu Berlin" Bastian & A. Voss, 1878, pg 56. hold any other valuable research material at all?

http://arheologie.ulbsibiu.ro/public...abia/foto2.jpg

Also, here is a curved bronze sword believed by my friend Romulus Stoica to be a bronze forebearer to a sica, but...in question the Bronze Age Center, it is more thought of to be a votive deposit, sacrificed to the God's, bent. Very interesting, though, I might add.

I think that the more information and support that is presented and analyzed to corroborate material, the more likely is its validity. We always presume that any establishment such as a museum would responsibly display artifacts and note whether items are authentic or representative reproductions.

Hmm...yes. I just wondered, because I was told from a friend Bogdan Costin in Bucharest, who I met on SFI that their were some fakes, and questioned. Just like I learned about ethics, you must always question and get the facts, the same goes for historical re-enactment, and collection antiques. Thanks for answering my question.

I hope this will be of some help, and might provide some ideas for you to further your research.

Thankyou, it sure has. I look forward to talking with you some more. Cheers!

Best regards,

Barrett Michael Hiebert