Brass Dagger

Rick · 29th November 2006, 06:15 PM

If I recall from reading Toer's works there is an associated purpose for a non ferrous blade in Jawa at least; this is more a Magik kind of attribute though.

There was a scene in one of the books where a person was assasinated in the street with a (brass/copper?) knife (not a keris) .

Robert · 29th November 2006, 08:11 PM

Battara and Rick,
Thank you for your interest and comments. I have compared the blade to a piece of red brass and an old piece of copper and the blade looks most likely to be made of copper. This seems to be a strange combination of materials to make a dagger from unless steel was at a premium or not available at the time it was made.

If it stops raining for a few minutes I will take new pictures. Should the brass and copper be polished or just cleaned with ren wax and a soft cloth?

Robert

Rick · 29th November 2006, 09:43 PM

I like it in patina myself.
This piece is most likely NOT made for want of steel.
In my opinion it has a specific purpose.

Copper can be work hardened cold.

Robert · 29th November 2006, 10:41 PM

Rick,
Do you have an idea of what the specific purpose for this would have been? If you do please let me know as I am trying to find out as much as I can about this very interesting piece. I thank you again for your help.

Robert

Rick · 30th November 2006, 12:44 AM

IIRC some Indo/Malay cultures believe that a wound made with a Copper blade is invariably fatal.

Toer mentions this in the Buru Quartet , again IIRC.

Try a Google ; YMMV.

Robert · 30th November 2006, 01:46 AM

Rick,
Thank you again for the information. Not trying to sound too stupid but what do IIRC and YMMV mean?

Robert

Rick · 30th November 2006, 01:54 AM

If I Recall Correctly
and
Your Mileage May Vary

Battara · 1st December 2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

IIRC some Indo/Malay cultures believe that a wound made with a Copper blade is invariably fatal.

I have heard this before. Some of this I can attribute to the oxidation of copper which is fatal, a copper oxide poisoning (thus tin was added to the bottom of copper pots).

Any other purpose -

If you find anything else please post, I am not aware of any Filipino reason for a copper blade.

Robert · 1st December 2006, 09:03 PM

Hi Jose,
So far I haven't able to find anything specific on Filipino use of copper blades but I have found a lot of information on other cultures beliefs on the using of copper for blades. If anyone else here on the forum has any information on this subject please post. Here are a couple of new pictures. I had to take these inside as we had a 14" snowfall last night and because of all the metal I have in me I cannot tolerate cold weather at all.

Total length 8"
Blade length 4-1/2"
Blade width at hilt 1"

not2sharp · 3rd December 2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

IIRC some Indo/Malay cultures believe that a wound made with a Copper blade is invariably fatal.

Toer mentions this in the Buru Quartet , again IIRC.

Try a Google ; YMMV.

Then again; perhaps the locals were tempted by the mass availability of brass (spent shell casings) abandon all over the place after WWII.

n2s

Robert · 3rd December 2006, 06:14 AM

not2sharp,
I thought about this but the blade is copper not brass plus I believe this to be pre WWII. What I am wondering about is what was the purpose of making a blade out of copper and not steel?

Robert

30th November 2006, 12:44 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,409	For What It's Worth IIRC some Indo/Malay cultures believe that a wound made with a Copper blade is invariably fatal. Toer mentions this in the Buru Quartet , again IIRC. Try a Google ; YMMV.

30th November 2006, 01:54 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,409	Web Acronyms If I Recall Correctly and Your Mileage May Vary

1st December 2006, 09:03 PM	#9
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Jose, So far I haven't able to find anything specific on Filipino use of copper blades but I have found a lot of information on other cultures beliefs on the using of copper for blades. If anyone else here on the forum has any information on this subject please post. Here are a couple of new pictures. I had to take these inside as we had a 14" snowfall last night and because of all the metal I have in me I cannot tolerate cold weather at all. Total length 8" Blade length 4-1/2" Blade width at hilt 1" Attached Images

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29th November 2006, 06:15 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,409	If I recall from reading Toer's works there is an associated purpose for a non ferrous blade in Jawa at least; this is more a Magik kind of attribute though. There was a scene in one of the books where a person was assasinated in the street with a (brass/copper?) knife (not a keris) .

29th November 2006, 08:11 PM	#2
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Battara and Rick, Thank you for your interest and comments. I have compared the blade to a piece of red brass and an old piece of copper and the blade looks most likely to be made of copper. This seems to be a strange combination of materials to make a dagger from unless steel was at a premium or not available at the time it was made. If it stops raining for a few minutes I will take new pictures. Should the brass and copper be polished or just cleaned with ren wax and a soft cloth? Robert

29th November 2006, 09:43 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,409	I like it in patina myself. This piece is most likely NOT made for want of steel. In my opinion it has a specific purpose. Copper can be work hardened cold.

29th November 2006, 10:41 PM	#4
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Rick, Do you have an idea of what the specific purpose for this would have been? If you do please let me know as I am trying to find out as much as I can about this very interesting piece. I thank you again for your help. Robert

30th November 2006, 01:46 AM	#6
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Rick, Thank you again for the information. Not trying to sound too stupid but what do IIRC and YMMV mean? Robert

3rd December 2006, 06:14 AM	#11
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	not2sharp, I thought about this but the blade is copper not brass plus I believe this to be pre WWII. What I am wondering about is what was the purpose of making a blade out of copper and not steel? Robert