1730 Rapier or a Victorian 'Copy' .........any ideas?

katana · 26th November 2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Katana,
You're right, that scoundrel Errol Flynn and all his swashbuckling is what got me into this obsession!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I would be interested to know more on the 'blacksmiths' swords. I think this would apply more to much more pedestrian weapons than rapiers though.

.
I'm wondering whether the author may have made assumptions..... perhaps swords of a seemingly functional nature but of lower quality were grouped as 'too good for a wall hanger....not good enough for a swordsmith'. I'm actually thinking that 'theatrical' swords may have entered this catagory......few would associate swords and thespians.......unless you are a Romantic........eh Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Still think this is likely a theatrical piece, and it would seem done at least somewhat in the style of Schmidt. The pieces I have seen illustrations of seem to favor the upward/downward quillon terminals (which of course were never seen on cuphilts as far as I know.
Best regards,
Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

It is not very clear on the photo, but is that cup welded or brazed to the blade? Almost looks like it has been arc welded....

Chris....simply I don't know...but I did noticed the 'join'.....with Jim's comments about the upward/downward terminals which weren't seen as cuphilts......perhaps the cup was a later addition.

Jim McDougall · 26th November 2006, 04:41 PM

[QUOTE=katana]

.
I'm wondering whether the author may have made assumptions..... perhaps swords of a seemingly functional nature but of lower quality were grouped as 'too good for a wall hanger....not good enough for a swordsmith'. I'm actually thinking that 'theatrical' swords may have entered this catagory......few would associate swords and thespians.......unless you are a Romantic........eh Jim

Spot on , Katana!!!!

Grrr! Blasted cape caught in the door again!!

Best,
Jim

VANDOO · 26th November 2006, 05:43 PM

AS JIM MENTIONED THE LEGNTH OF RAPIERS WAS RESTRICTED BY ORDER OF THE QUEEN. I CAN PICTURE A MONTY PYTHON LIKE SITUATION AT COURT, I CAN IMAGINE PEOPLE GETTING TRIPPED AND WHACKED WHEN THE GENTELMEN TURNED OR POKED IN THE EYE OR GOOSED WHEN THE GENTELMEN BOWED TO SOMEONE. PERHAPS THE QUEEN HERSELF WAS A VICTIM OF THE DEADLY GOOSE SO BANNED LONG SWORDS IN HER COURT.

IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO BEHAVE IN A PROPER DIGNIFIED ENGLISH MANNER IN SHUCH A SETTING. THUS COURT SWORDS WERE MADE AND BECAME THE RAGE.

Robert · 27th November 2006, 01:17 AM

Here is a sword that I have that fits into the "what is it" category. This sword was covered in layer after layer of aluminium paint when I bought it. The woman who owned it had let her children and grand children carry it around on Halloween. The wooden grip was so dried out that I put a wood preservative on it (I hope this was not a mistake) to help keep it from getting any worse. Her story was that this was brought back from the Philippines after the Spanish American War with other edged weapons (including one with a long wavy blade as she described it) by her uncle but she had already sold the others when I bought this one. There is engraving on the ferrels and the pommel that look a lot like the engraving on the silver hilted dagger that I posted on the forum. The blade is what I would describe as hollow ground. The blade is 39-5/8 inches long, 3/8 inches thick at its thickest point and 1-13/16 inches wide at its widest point. The hilt is 9-1/2 inches long. I was even told by someone else that it was probably made by Ernst Schmidt. If anyone has any thoughts on this piece please post them as I have been trying to identify it for a couple of years with little luck. The blade is not shiny like it looks in the pictures.

27th November 2006, 01:17 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Here is a sword that I have that fits into the "what is it" category. This sword was covered in layer after layer of aluminium paint when I bought it. The woman who owned it had let her children and grand children carry it around on Halloween. The wooden grip was so dried out that I put a wood preservative on it (I hope this was not a mistake) to help keep it from getting any worse. Her story was that this was brought back from the Philippines after the Spanish American War with other edged weapons (including one with a long wavy blade as she described it) by her uncle but she had already sold the others when I bought this one. There is engraving on the ferrels and the pommel that look a lot like the engraving on the silver hilted dagger that I posted on the forum. The blade is what I would describe as hollow ground. The blade is 39-5/8 inches long, 3/8 inches thick at its thickest point and 1-13/16 inches wide at its widest point. The hilt is 9-1/2 inches long. I was even told by someone else that it was probably made by Ernst Schmidt. If anyone has any thoughts on this piece please post them as I have been trying to identify it for a couple of years with little luck. The blade is not shiny like it looks in the pictures. Attached Images

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26th November 2006, 04:41 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,661	[QUOTE=katana] . I'm wondering whether the author may have made assumptions..... perhaps swords of a seemingly functional nature but of lower quality were grouped as 'too good for a wall hanger....not good enough for a swordsmith'. I'm actually thinking that 'theatrical' swords may have entered this catagory......few would associate swords and thespians.......unless you are a Romantic........eh Jim Spot on , Katana!!!! Grrr! Blasted cape caught in the door again!! Best, Jim

26th November 2006, 05:43 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AS JIM MENTIONED THE LEGNTH OF RAPIERS WAS RESTRICTED BY ORDER OF THE QUEEN. I CAN PICTURE A MONTY PYTHON LIKE SITUATION AT COURT, I CAN IMAGINE PEOPLE GETTING TRIPPED AND WHACKED WHEN THE GENTELMEN TURNED OR POKED IN THE EYE OR GOOSED WHEN THE GENTELMEN BOWED TO SOMEONE. PERHAPS THE QUEEN HERSELF WAS A VICTIM OF THE DEADLY GOOSE SO BANNED LONG SWORDS IN HER COURT. IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO BEHAVE IN A PROPER DIGNIFIED ENGLISH MANNER IN SHUCH A SETTING. THUS COURT SWORDS WERE MADE AND BECAME THE RAGE.