Two Tulwars For Comment

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2006, 05:23 PM

Yes i know Lew, almost like this one.
Don't you have any more comments to my questions?

Lew · 6th November 2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Yes i know Lew, almost like this one.
Don't you have any more comments to my questions?

Yes

The fluted hilt seems to be silver overlay. What is the significance of the blade having or not having a riccasso? The top sword is not wootz but it does seem to have an inserted edge so it must be some type of lamination?

Lew

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2006, 07:14 PM

Lew,

Are you sure the fluted hilt is not made of silver? Have you tried with a magnet? It could be silver plated, but then again, it could be of silver.

Most Indian made blades have a ricasso, often it is said, that blades without a ricasso are European – I doubt that, as I think some of them are Indian made as well, maybe copied from European blades, but still Indian.

Interesting also, as some claim that the reason for the ricasso was, that the Indians used to have their index finger curled around the quillon, to give better room for the other fingers, and to have a better grip. I find it hard to convince myself of this theory, but these blades could have been made in other places, and been exported to India.

They did make blades of softer steel and insert an edge of hard steel, so maybe yours is one of these.

Lew · 7th November 2006, 03:18 AM

Jens

Here are some close ups of the hilts.

Lew

Jens Nordlunde · 7th November 2006, 03:04 PM

Lew,

Thank you for the pictures. The one with the gold decoration looks old. The first mark looks like a letter and a number to me, and the second mark, the eyelashes are made in a way, which I have never seen before. It looks very primitive, but there is no doubt what the meaning was. This is interesting, as the eyelashes were said to be a copy of a European sword mark, and maybe it was, but why then mark the blade as it is on yours, as this mark would fool no one. No one would take it for being a European blade mark, so maybe the eyelashes with the dots can have more than one meaning.

Hrthuma ibn Marwan · 8th November 2006, 10:42 AM

very nice imo

Would love to have something like it. Nice patterns as well.

But the tang on the second sword, lookks kind of thin in accordance with the blade?

Lew · 8th November 2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrthuma ibn Marwan

very nice imo

Would love to have something like it. Nice patterns as well.

But the tang on the second sword, lookks kind of thin in accordance with the blade?

Can you be more specific about the tang. There is no picture of a tang?

Lew

Andreas Volk · 14th November 2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Lew,

Thank you for the pictures. The one with the gold decoration looks old. The first mark looks like a letter and a number to me, and the second mark, the eyelashes are made in a way, which I have never seen before. It looks very primitive, but there is no doubt what the meaning was. This is interesting, as the eyelashes were said to be a copy of a European sword mark, and maybe it was, but why then mark the blade as it is on yours, as this mark would fool no one. No one would take it for being a European blade mark, so maybe the eyelashes with the dots can have more than one meaning.

Hi Jens!
I'm not sure on the "european eyelash" mark but I "guess" - and that is really what I'm doing - that this
symbol / decoration was used in a hinduistic context as well.
Please find attached the decoration on one of my kukris (2nd part of the 19th cent. is my guess).
Please also note that the lashes ar on the inside.

Best regards

Andreas Volk

Jens Nordlunde · 14th November 2006, 06:30 PM

Hi Andreas,

What makes me wonder is, the blade seems to be a nice one, and the hilt better than average, so not a cheap tulwar at the time - why then make ‘eye lashes’ like this?

Although the Muslims also used talismanic markings, I agree with you, that I also think it is a Hindu marking.

The markings on your kukri are interesting, and although I don’t know, I would think it is seldom to see on kukris. On thing, which I find especially interesting, is the way the eyelashes are ‘closed’ by the three dots. I have a tulwar where eye lashes and fullers are started and end with three dots. Unfortunately I don’t yet know why that is, but I am working on it.

Best

Jens

6th November 2006, 05:23 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes i know Lew, almost like this one. Don't you have any more comments to my questions? Attached Images

7th November 2006, 03:18 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jens Here are some close ups of the hilts. Lew Attached Images

7th November 2006, 03:04 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Lew, Thank you for the pictures. The one with the gold decoration looks old. The first mark looks like a letter and a number to me, and the second mark, the eyelashes are made in a way, which I have never seen before. It looks very primitive, but there is no doubt what the meaning was. This is interesting, as the eyelashes were said to be a copy of a European sword mark, and maybe it was, but why then mark the blade as it is on yours, as this mark would fool no one. No one would take it for being a European blade mark, so maybe the eyelashes with the dots can have more than one meaning. Attached Images

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6th November 2006, 07:14 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Lew, Are you sure the fluted hilt is not made of silver? Have you tried with a magnet? It could be silver plated, but then again, it could be of silver. Most Indian made blades have a ricasso, often it is said, that blades without a ricasso are European – I doubt that, as I think some of them are Indian made as well, maybe copied from European blades, but still Indian. Interesting also, as some claim that the reason for the ricasso was, that the Indians used to have their index finger curled around the quillon, to give better room for the other fingers, and to have a better grip. I find it hard to convince myself of this theory, but these blades could have been made in other places, and been exported to India. They did make blades of softer steel and insert an edge of hard steel, so maybe yours is one of these.

8th November 2006, 10:42 AM	#6
Hrthuma ibn Marwan Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in my study Posts: 18	very nice imo Would love to have something like it. Nice patterns as well. But the tang on the second sword, lookks kind of thin in accordance with the blade?

14th November 2006, 06:30 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Andreas, What makes me wonder is, the blade seems to be a nice one, and the hilt better than average, so not a cheap tulwar at the time - why then make ‘eye lashes’ like this? Although the Muslims also used talismanic markings, I agree with you, that I also think it is a Hindu marking. The markings on your kukri are interesting, and although I don’t know, I would think it is seldom to see on kukris. On thing, which I find especially interesting, is the way the eyelashes are ‘closed’ by the three dots. I have a tulwar where eye lashes and fullers are started and end with three dots. Unfortunately I don’t yet know why that is, but I am working on it. Best Jens