Japanese dagger with saw

Sommelier · 24th August 2006, 12:21 PM

Dear friends,

I've got this strange Japanese dagger. I can not find it in my books.
May be it is fake?
Could any body identify it?

Tnanks in advance!

Congoblades · 24th August 2006, 04:11 PM

Hi,
Looks nice, maybe it's an old bonsai saw end no dagger?

Are there marks in the blade?
Guy

Rich · 24th August 2006, 04:12 PM

I've seen a lot of Japanese swords, tanto, bayonets, etc, but never one
like this. Looks original, but no idea what it was used for (maybe forestry
officials sword???).

Rich S

Rick · 24th August 2006, 04:34 PM

Pioneer troops ?

Montino Bourbon · 24th August 2006, 07:13 PM

Firemen in Japan would carry a tool that resebled the hatchet end of that. It may be a WW2 version of that.

Henk · 24th August 2006, 07:59 PM

Looks like a kind of bayonet like dagger. Military I would say. The hilts looks like that of a sabre. Ricks guess of pioneer troops isn't so odd at all.

Rich · 24th August 2006, 11:16 PM

I took the liberty of posting the URL of this thread to one of the
Japanese sword forums. One of the guys found this site that may
(or may not) be relevant. A fireman's "tool" seems to be the best guess.

http://www.e-budokai.com/collection/tobikuchi.htm

Rich S

Valjhun · 25th August 2006, 10:18 AM

Hi!

Interesting piece! Never saw anything like before. Let's analise it. White rayskih is associated with the imperial navy for the Showa period. If it is older it could be army also. Well it looks original indeed. If it is army/navy/firemen it should be marked on the hilt with a symbol (6 pointed star for firemen, 5 pointed star for policem, sakura army/navy). Without a scabbard wold seem like an officer bonsai cutting tool (like thoose saw blades mounted in tanto mountings), but with that hatched scabbard? Strange indeed. I barely see a symbol on the hilt. A better photo would help.

I would guess that it is a navy engineer officer dagger?

Better photos would help a lot. Is there a sakura flower symbol anywhere on it?

Sommelier · 25th August 2006, 11:45 AM

Sorry,

The dagger is not mine. Some more photos from the holder.

Rich · 25th August 2006, 12:16 PM

Are there any emblems or markings on the hilt or blade?

Rich S

Valjhun · 25th August 2006, 01:21 PM

I can see the star but I cannot say if it is 6 or 5 pinted, due to the nature of the blade and scabbard I'd say that it is a fireman dagger.

Sommelier · 28th August 2006, 01:02 PM

Other opinions?

Battara · 28th August 2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

I can see the star but I cannot say if it is 6 or 5 pinted, due to the nature of the blade and scabbard I'd say that it is a fireman dagger.

ditto

Showa period

Sommelier · 29th August 2006, 01:48 PM

Are there any pictures in Fuller or other books?

Rich · 29th August 2006, 03:02 PM

I've most every book published on Showa blades and have a saw bladed
tanto, but never seen anything like this one published anywhere.

Rich S

24th August 2006, 12:21 PM	#1
Sommelier Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Minsk, Byelorussia Posts: 18	Japanese dagger with saw Dear friends, I've got this strange Japanese dagger. I can not find it in my books. May be it is fake? Could any body identify it? Tnanks in advance! Attached Images

24th August 2006, 07:13 PM	#5
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Fireman's tool? Firemen in Japan would carry a tool that resebled the hatchet end of that. It may be a WW2 version of that.

25th August 2006, 10:18 AM	#8
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Hi! Interesting piece! Never saw anything like before. Let's analise it. White rayskih is associated with the imperial navy for the Showa period. If it is older it could be army also. Well it looks original indeed. If it is army/navy/firemen it should be marked on the hilt with a symbol (6 pointed star for firemen, 5 pointed star for policem, sakura army/navy). Without a scabbard wold seem like an officer bonsai cutting tool (like thoose saw blades mounted in tanto mountings), but with that hatched scabbard? Strange indeed. I barely see a symbol on the hilt. A better photo would help. I would guess that it is a navy engineer officer dagger? Better photos would help a lot. Is there a sakura flower symbol anywhere on it? Last edited by Valjhun; 25th August 2006 at 10:30 AM.

25th August 2006, 11:45 AM	#9
Sommelier Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Minsk, Byelorussia Posts: 18	Sorry, The dagger is not mine. Some more photos from the holder. Attached Images

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24th August 2006, 04:11 PM	#2
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	Hi, Looks nice, maybe it's an old bonsai saw end no dagger? Are there marks in the blade? Guy

24th August 2006, 04:12 PM	#3
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I've seen a lot of Japanese swords, tanto, bayonets, etc, but never one like this. Looks original, but no idea what it was used for (maybe forestry officials sword???). Rich S

24th August 2006, 04:34 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Pioneer troops ?

24th August 2006, 07:59 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Looks like a kind of bayonet like dagger. Military I would say. The hilts looks like that of a sabre. Ricks guess of pioneer troops isn't so odd at all.

24th August 2006, 11:16 PM	#7
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I took the liberty of posting the URL of this thread to one of the Japanese sword forums. One of the guys found this site that may (or may not) be relevant. A fireman's "tool" seems to be the best guess. http://www.e-budokai.com/collection/tobikuchi.htm Rich S

25th August 2006, 12:16 PM	#10
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Are there any emblems or markings on the hilt or blade? Rich S

25th August 2006, 01:21 PM	#11
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	I can see the star but I cannot say if it is 6 or 5 pinted, due to the nature of the blade and scabbard I'd say that it is a fireman dagger.

28th August 2006, 01:02 PM	#12
Sommelier Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Minsk, Byelorussia Posts: 18	Other opinions?

29th August 2006, 01:48 PM	#14
Sommelier Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Minsk, Byelorussia Posts: 18	Are there any pictures in Fuller or other books?

29th August 2006, 03:02 PM	#15
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I've most every book published on Showa blades and have a saw bladed tanto, but never seen anything like this one published anywhere. Rich S