Keris ID

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I tend to disagree that we can leave this discussion up in the air.

My knowledge of Bugis society, culture & history is presently very limited, & my way of thinking about the keris is that we should gain that foundation understanding before we try to understand the keris itself.

Going back twenty or so years we did have active members of this Forum who had some knowledge of Bugis keris forms:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+keris+comment

in this thread we do have some people who seem to be quite positive of geographic locations associated with various forms of Bugis keris dress.

They might be correct, they might not be, but I do believe that their comments are worthy of taking note of.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, I tend to disagree that we can leave this discussion up in the air.

What i meant by leave it at that was that you and i, two people who have admitted that we don't know all that much about keris outside the Jawa/Bali/Sumatra nexus (and even there i know relatively little compared to you) could "probably leave it at that". I was in no way suggesting that people who understand these areas better than us should not share their knowledge on this keris if they have any.
That said, we do have a keris that obviously has been placed in a sheath that was not made for it, nor that anyone bothered to properly refit. That sheath seems very likely to have a gandar that is not original to the sheath. And not knowing enough about it, to my eyes the hilt seems oversized and out of proportion to the ensemble as a whole. So what i see is a keris that was very possible assembled from parts from numerous origins. I do, however, welcome being proved wrong on that if somebody can show a single origin for this ensemble as a whole.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, sure it is possible that it is a dealer's or collectors montage, but this can happen in an indigenous society as well. In Bali it is not at all uncommon to see Javanese blades in Bali dress, & a lot of Bali pusaka keris are in fact Jawa keris in Bali dress. In Jawa we find both Bugis & Bali blades in Jawa dress.

I remember a keris that I once saw that had excellent provenance, it had been acquired many years previously on the North Coast of Sumatera & each and every part of that keris was from a different geographic location.

The scabbard fitted neatly to the blade that collectors like to see is in my experience not particularly usual outside of areas where the keris is a required part of formal dress. Even in those areas, somebody who wants to redress his keris might not be able to afford the services of a m'ranggi, so he buys a new ready made wrongko in the market and fits it himself, not everybody is all that skilled at this.

[adamb]

Thanks all for your insight. Yes the gandar fits awkwardly to the sampir; it probably is a replacement but apparently an old one