Keris with elephant-headed blade.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, in respect of Mrs. Vanna Ghiringhelli's previous publications, I reserve comment.
In respect of her upcoming publication I will say only this:- this lady writes well, and is a meticulous researcher, I have found all of her writings to be an excellent mirror of the overall beliefs associated with the keris. Her perspective is in my opinion one that should be given close attention by anybody who wishes to undertake a comparative study of the keris as it is understood by all of those people who have an interest in it.

Well Alan, as i stated earlier, i do have both of her books on hilts and i would be most interested in seeing, if not owning (which is probably the only way i will get to see it) this upcoming book as well. I do not disagree with you commentary on her writing or perspective .

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

You have said that the figure bears a mace, I can only see that he has something in his left hand, would it be possible to show us the other side of this figure, so we can see the mace?

Hello Alan,
See the attached pic. I selected the other pic to better show the hairdesss in wayang style.
Regards

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Well Alan, as i stated earlier, i do have both of her books on hilts and i would be most interested in seeing, if not owning (which is probably the only way i will get to see it) this upcoming book as well. I do not disagree with you commentary on her writing or perspective .

Regarding the last book from Vanna: "Kris hilts, masterpieces of South-East Asian art", she asked me (and probably some Italian collectors also) to help her identifying some very rare pieces from the collection but I was unable to give her any justified opinion. So she wisely chose to be very careful about the identification of these hilts.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Jean.

Yes, it does look like a serious donger, but there is nothing else I can see in this representation that would incline me to think I was looking at Bhima.

Bhima is a very serious heavy. A Wide Boy. A hit man. He is not a pleasant young man with an other-worldly expression on his face.

In Bali Hindu iconography, Classical Javanese iconography, Hindu iconography, the serpent around the neck or across the shoulder is normally associated with Siwa.

But this little statue is Balinese, and Balinese carvers often have a mind of their own about how well known personages should be shown. Personally, I would not attempt to give this charming little gentleman any name at all.

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I look forward to this publication Marco. Mrs. Vanna Ghiringhelli is certainly an authority on mainstream Hindu beliefs and culture.

Can you advise how this book can be ordered?

I have receive this day the news about the new Vanna Ghiringhelli book

[Jean]

The book is not yet available on Amazon but it will be on some Italian bookshops from 14th November at the price of 38 Euros. Great!
We badly need some kris events for boosting our spirits during this confinement period!
Regards

[kai]

Thanks, Mario!

Sounds like the event will be in Italian only, doesn't it?

Regards,
Kai

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks, Mario!

Sounds like the event will be in Italian only, doesn't it?

Regards,
Kai

I think in Italian yes

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I think in Italian yes

Thank you. I managed to place an order for this book. Hopefully can get it.

[kai]

Thanks, Mario!

Here's the link for the lecture on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_CpxlR2T8Q

Regards,
Kai

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks, Mario!

Here's the link for the lecture on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_CpxlR2T8Q

Regards,
Kai

Moderator Note: Marco, you cannot post links to the sale of this book on this forum. Open up a thread in the Keris Swap for that.

[Mickey the Finn]

Discussion about the identity of the gada/mace toting personage caught my attention. The material to follow is mostly from Wikipedia and Vedicfeed, and does not reflect my opinion about the identity of the personage; I don't know enough about the subject to have formed an opinion. It's food for thought, or more fodder for speculation.
Balarama is often depicted with a serpent canopy. He is mentioned at vedicfeed as being the incarnation of Shesha Naag, the Nagaraja, associated with Vishnu. Vedicfeed also says that Balarama is an avatar of Vishnu, Vishnu incarnated as Krishna, and that Shesha Naag is a manifestation of Vishnu. When Balarama "died"/ "disappeared"/ "reached the state of Yoga Samadhi", a spirit in the shape of a white snake came out of his mouth. Balarama isn't depicted with a serpent around his neck, but there's a definite association.
Religion.wikia.org says "Balarama is almost always [italics mine] depicted as being fair skinned...". There is one 19th C. Nathdwara painting of Balarama and Revati, and Balarama is depicted with blue skin and yellow garments, including a yellow turban. However, he wields a plow in this painting, not a gada/mace. He may have roughly seven bulbous knots in his black hair, or they may be a serpent canopy; it's hard to tell from the picture.
And although Shiva is known for the serpent around his neck, he is not known to wield a mace.
Hanuman does wield a mace, but...
I'll conclude now.
Mickey

[Athanase]

Hello,

I'm reviving this thread because I finally managed to remove the handle using a heat gun.
The blade is 46cm long.

There are remnants of gold Kinatha on the top of the gonjo, but on the sides as well, you can see that originally there were lozenges, triangles, and plant motifs.

I haven't been able to remove the base of the Palembang-style pendokok. The copper is very thin, glued with resin. The problem is that once the resin is hot and melted, the metal is so thin and flexible that you can't pull it off without crushing it against the Pesi, thus jamming it.

The handle is well-proportioned for the blade, but I find its style more Javanese than Balinese (unlike the blade).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In respect of the hilt, my personal preference would be to leave exactly as it is, no restoration attempts, but demount from the blade and keep separate in a situation that would be kind to ivory, ideally this would be controlled humidity & temperature, but for most of us this is not possible. Certainly in a situation where it is not exposed to sunlight or artificial lighting and is protected from dust. A small glass of water in the same space would give a measure of added protection.

I would bathe the ivory hilt for one week in linseed oil, the crack may get closed.

[A. G. Maisey]

This advice is not from me, it was given me many years ago by a recognised authority in museum restoration & conservation, I'm only passing it on.

"Do not use linseed oil on ivory, ivory is a very dense material, linseed oil will not penetrate ivory, but it can cause discoloration & other damage.
The oils to use on ivory are high quality mineral oils, oils like medicinal paraffin."

Linseed oil used correctly can be beneficial for wood, but must not be used on ivory.

In fact, my personal experience is that I have never had much luck with closing up a crack in ivory.

In Indonesia there is a saying:-

"Tiada gading tanpa retak" = "There is no ivory without a crack"

This is understood as:- "Nothing is perfect."

[Athanase]

Since I received it, the ivory has given way.

In fact, the handle had already been completely broken in two (or even three pieces), then glued back together. And it might not have been the first time it had been glued in that spot, because on the side I can see an older repair with a small ivory nail to help hold the two glued parts together.
On one side there's also a missing piece that's been filled with a piece recarved from bone.
Now that I've removed the two parts of the handle, I'm thinking of trying to remove the old glue with acetone and then attempting a clean re-glue using the glue we use for fossils at my work (acrylic glue: Paraloid B72).

[A. G. Maisey]

I thought that might have been the case when I followed the cracks.

I have repaired more than a few hilts in many different materials, my adhesive of choice is 5 minute Araldite. The joining surfaces must be absolutely clean & dry, I like to roughen the joining surfaces with cabinet paper or a sharp pointed tool before applying the adhesive & this adhesive can be tinted with artist's powder colour. Hold firmly in place by hand until the adhesive sets, before that adhesive hardens I go over the hilt using a 2x or 3x loupe & dentists picks and clean away any excess adhesive. Sharpened bambu sate sticks are also good for this purpose.

Re roughening surfaces, it is best to leave the one or two millimeters adjoining the visible edge of the crack without roughening in order to make it easier to get a tight fit of those visible edges.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This advice is not from me, it was given me many years ago by a recognised authority in museum restoration & conservation, I'm only passing it on.

"Do not use linseed oil on ivory, ivory is a very dense material, linseed oil will not penetrate ivory, but it can cause discoloration & other damage.
The oils to use on ivory are high quality mineral oils, oils like medicinal paraffin."

Linseed oil used correctly can be beneficial for wood, but must not be used on ivory.

In fact, my personal experience is that I have never had much luck with closing up a crack in ivory.

In Indonesia there is a saying:-

"Tiada gading tanpa retak" = "There is no ivory without a crack"

This is understood as:- "Nothing is perfect."

Hello Alan,

This crack in a tumbok lada hilt from ivory I've closed with a one week bath in linseed oil. The crack was opened for ca. 3 mm, now my fingernails can't fit inside anymore.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

As I said Detlef, my comment was not my advice, it was advice given to me a long time ago by a lead conservator who had an extremely impressive resume. This man was heavily relied upon by a couple of major museums.

I have never tried linseed oil on ivory.

Looking at your hilt that has come together I might give it a try on something unimportant, I've got a lot of ivory, I can probably find something with a crack that I'd be prepared to try it on.

Tell me, was your linseed oil boiled oil or raw oil?

Did you demount the hilt before soaking?

If you demounted, did you clean out the tang hole & tang before remounting?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As I said Detlef, my comment was not my advice, it was advice given to me a long time ago by a lead conservator who had an extremely impressive resume. This man was heavily relied upon by a couple of major museums.

I have never tried linseed oil on ivory.

Looking at your hilt that has come together I might give it a try on something unimportant, I've got a lot of ivory, I can probably find something with a crack that I'd be prepared to try it on.

Tell me, was your linseed oil boiled oil or raw oil?

Did you demount the hilt before soaking?

If you demounted, did you clean out the tang hole & tang before remounting?

Hello Alan,

The linseed oil I used was cold pressed, not boiled. The hilt wasn't demount, I had noticed that the crack before became bigger and I got the impression that I needed to do something. Frankly said, it was the first and only time that I used this method on ivory. This is now some years ago.

Regards,
Detlef

[Athanase]

If it works with linseed oil, I imagine it could also work with the mineral oils Alan mentioned.

The advantage is that they are colorless and would preserve the whiteness of the ivory.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Athanase

If it works with linseed oil, I imagine it could also work with the mineral oils Alan mentioned.

The advantage is that they are colorless and would preserve the whiteness of the ivory.

I guess it's like this! But I can assure you that the colour of the ivory hasn't changed by the bath.

BTW, very nice keris! Congrats!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Athanase

Since I received it, the ivory has given way.

In fact, the handle had already been completely broken in two (or even three pieces), then glued back together. And it might not have been the first time it had been glued in that spot, because on the side I can see an older repair with a small ivory nail to help hold the two glued parts together.
On one side there's also a missing piece that's been filled with a piece recarved from bone.
Now that I've removed the two parts of the handle, I'm thinking of trying to remove the old glue with acetone and then attempting a clean re-glue using the glue we use for fossils at my work (acrylic glue: Paraloid B72).

Please show us the result! Maybe also pics of the broken hilt.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I guess it's like this! But I can assure you that the colour of the ivory hasn't changed by the bath.

BTW, very nice keris! Congrats!

I had a nice piece of very white hippo ivory that I yellowed with linseed I wasn't thinking For already yellow ivories I cannot tell any visible difference. I have tried to stick to mineral oil after that mistake.