British Infantry Officers Battle Swords in the 19th C...and up to 1914

Peter Hudson · 31st October 2025, 08:38 AM

More detail here..https://www.royalartillerymuseum.com...-sword-bayonet
Peter Hudson.

Jim McDougall · 1st November 2025, 03:54 AM

Old notes, found this:

From "Charge to Glory", James Lunt, (1976) p.1:
"...the charge will always remain the thing in which it will be the cavalrymans pride to die, sword in hand". -Cavalry Journal, 1909.

He dedicated the book to his friend, Capt. Arthur Sandeman, of the Central India Horse, who died leading a contingent of about 60 mounted sowars of the Burma Frontier Force in the last mounted cavalry charge of British cavalry on March 21, 1942.
On patrol at Toungoo, Burma, which was the site of the airfield for the famed American Volunteer Group (the 'Flying Tigers') , seeing a body of military they first mistook for Chinese, then realizing it was Japanese infantry who opened fire....
Capt. Sandeman instinctively raised his sword, the over 60 sowars, mostly Sikhs, charged , in the old style with sabers. He and most of the sowars were killed,

Triarii · 2nd November 2025, 09:11 PM

Coming late to this, during the C16th and C17th the rapier was indeed noted as being unmilitary, being too long for the battlefield and unable to pierce any form of protection.

However, one reason the introduction of the rapier for use by gentlemen was initially condemned was because a thrust through the body was invariably fatal whereas cuts from broadsword and backsword blades were often survivable. Masters of Defence were expected to prove their mastery via fights with live blades and the 'swashbucklers' would fight with live blades and both would live to tell the tale.

Work by Dr Ismini Pells on pensions claimed and issued to soldiers of both sides during and after the ECW / BCW / WOTK showed that only 4% of those claiming pensions (usual health warnings etc) were due to sword injuries. From that we can either deduce that swords were rarely used (unlikely for example given the preponderance of cavalry during that era and the contemporary accounts of stormings) or that swords rarely inflicated debilitating injuries. I incline to the latter, suspecting that many wounds were treatable cuts.

Peter Hudson · 2nd November 2025, 11:25 PM

Hello Triarii, well its all confusing and to many its all rather not worth arguing about but the upshot was that swords in the context of serious conflict weapons ...ie WW1 in 1914, were off the battlefield. So really it makes no difference which style was used... They all went home.
...To us this was a catclysmic end to the whole business of collecting and history of weapons...Other than for parades and ceremonial duties...apart from the odd individual military action...the sword was finished...and the corner was turned in favour of gunpowder weapons...and associated weaponry like Bayonets. Swords continued and indeed were diverted to be used in wars further afield like in the orient and in other spheres like in India...The amazing orders to get swords off the Battlefield and replace them with swagger sticks to one side...sub units were reorganised to replace the sword including the use of shotguns and pistols etc. The American soldiers developed a useful pump action shotgun they knicknamed The Trench Broom. and there were some useful revolver and magazine fed pistols as a backup weapon...and the use of cavalry moved apace to include the use of Mounted Infantry
using shorter barrel carbines etc.
However having said all that ... I still think it worth considering what blades were being used at the time and how was sword design handled up to its sudden demise. Indeed I think the period during which swords were removed from the battlefield spans a vital opportunity to view the many blade styles that aoppeared in our historical record. There was a bounceback of styles covering hundreds of years of sword development...As an example look at the 1821 pipeback which was redesigned with a solid backblade in 1845 and with a huge fuller and retaining its spear point...and for use up til the end of the 19thC. The old 1821 wasnt simply ditched but went on to be purchased for Indian Cavalry such as The Scinde Irregular...Jacobs Horse...while at the same time blades of every shape size and style appeared.as if the late 19th C.was being held up as a mirror for all things Sword Style...and yet just around the corner it was all about the come to a halt! Thus its important place in our study I think.
Regards,
Peter Hudson.

1st November 2025, 03:54 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,672	Use of the sword in WWII Old notes, found this: From "Charge to Glory", James Lunt, (1976) p.1: "...the charge will always remain the thing in which it will be the cavalrymans pride to die, sword in hand". -Cavalry Journal, 1909. He dedicated the book to his friend, Capt. Arthur Sandeman, of the Central India Horse, who died leading a contingent of about 60 mounted sowars of the Burma Frontier Force in the last mounted cavalry charge of British cavalry on March 21, 1942. On patrol at Toungoo, Burma, which was the site of the airfield for the famed American Volunteer Group (the 'Flying Tigers') , seeing a body of military they first mistook for Chinese, then realizing it was Japanese infantry who opened fire.... Capt. Sandeman instinctively raised his sword, the over 60 sowars, mostly Sikhs, charged , in the old style with sabers. He and most of the sowars were killed, Attached Images

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31st October 2025, 08:38 AM	#1
Peter Hudson Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 344	More detail here..https://www.royalartillerymuseum.com...-sword-bayonet Peter Hudson.

2nd November 2025, 09:11 PM	#3
Triarii Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Location: Bristol Posts: 149	Coming late to this, during the C16th and C17th the rapier was indeed noted as being unmilitary, being too long for the battlefield and unable to pierce any form of protection. However, one reason the introduction of the rapier for use by gentlemen was initially condemned was because a thrust through the body was invariably fatal whereas cuts from broadsword and backsword blades were often survivable. Masters of Defence were expected to prove their mastery via fights with live blades and the 'swashbucklers' would fight with live blades and both would live to tell the tale. Work by Dr Ismini Pells on pensions claimed and issued to soldiers of both sides during and after the ECW / BCW / WOTK showed that only 4% of those claiming pensions (usual health warnings etc) were due to sword injuries. From that we can either deduce that swords were rarely used (unlikely for example given the preponderance of cavalry during that era and the contemporary accounts of stormings) or that swords rarely inflicated debilitating injuries. I incline to the latter, suspecting that many wounds were treatable cuts.

2nd November 2025, 11:25 PM	#4
Peter Hudson Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 344	Hello Triarii, well its all confusing and to many its all rather not worth arguing about but the upshot was that swords in the context of serious conflict weapons ...ie WW1 in 1914, were off the battlefield. So really it makes no difference which style was used... They all went home. ...To us this was a catclysmic end to the whole business of collecting and history of weapons...Other than for parades and ceremonial duties...apart from the odd individual military action...the sword was finished...and the corner was turned in favour of gunpowder weapons...and associated weaponry like Bayonets. Swords continued and indeed were diverted to be used in wars further afield like in the orient and in other spheres like in India...The amazing orders to get swords off the Battlefield and replace them with swagger sticks to one side...sub units were reorganised to replace the sword including the use of shotguns and pistols etc. The American soldiers developed a useful pump action shotgun they knicknamed The Trench Broom. and there were some useful revolver and magazine fed pistols as a backup weapon...and the use of cavalry moved apace to include the use of Mounted Infantry using shorter barrel carbines etc. However having said all that ... I still think it worth considering what blades were being used at the time and how was sword design handled up to its sudden demise. Indeed I think the period during which swords were removed from the battlefield spans a vital opportunity to view the many blade styles that aoppeared in our historical record. There was a bounceback of styles covering hundreds of years of sword development...As an example look at the 1821 pipeback which was redesigned with a solid backblade in 1845 and with a huge fuller and retaining its spear point...and for use up til the end of the 19thC. The old 1821 wasnt simply ditched but went on to be purchased for Indian Cavalry such as The Scinde Irregular...Jacobs Horse...while at the same time blades of every shape size and style appeared.as if the late 19th C.was being held up as a mirror for all things Sword Style...and yet just around the corner it was all about the come to a halt! Thus its important place in our study I think. Regards, Peter Hudson.