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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 282
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Ballesteros was a private enterprise and had nothing to do with the Fabrica de Toledo, only the same location.
They made a couple of models for Portuguese army and for some Spanish local police. |
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,935
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Ballesteros were a private frim, however King Charles the 111 brought all manufacturing under the Royal Arms so Ballesteros were under contract. The Royal Sword Factory of Toledo in 1761.
Last edited by Tim Simmons; 28th October 2025 at 08:29 AM. |
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 282
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Since 1820 it was allowed that other cutlers could make and comercialize swords outside of the oficial centers.
For example, Ibarzabal could sell complete swords from that year, made in Eibar. Some of his pieces are marked Fabrica de Eibar in the 1870s. The swords from Ballesteros are from around 1890. |
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,935
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Thank you.
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,935
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I do not know how realvant this is ? seem to be going round in circles. No mention of 1820 changes?
https://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector/toledo.html Is AI all we can take as knowledge?? AI Overview Based on auction and collector records, Ballesteros was a prominent private arms manufacturer in 19th-century Toledo that operated alongside the much larger national-level Royal Arms Factory. The Ballesteros company specialized in high-quality military swords, like cavalry sabers, as indicated by existing collectors' items. Ballesteros as a private maker Unlike the Royal Arms Factory (Real Fábrica de Armas), which was a state-run enterprise, Ballesteros was a private manufacturer. Auction listings and collectors' discussions identify specific 19th-century Spanish military swords, such as cavalry sabers, that are marked with "Armas Toledo Ballesteros". Ballesteros operated within Toledo's tradition of master swordsmiths, producing weaponry for both military and civilian use, and his work is highly regarded by collectors. The larger context of 19th-century Toledo sword production The Ballesteros factory was part of a broader sword-making tradition in Toledo that underwent significant changes in the 19th century. Royal Factory dominance: King Charles III established the Royal Sword Factory in 1761 to preserve Toledo's legendary sword-making heritage. By the 19th century, this factory was the main center of production, bringing together master smiths and modernizing the process. Expansion and mechanization: Production at the Royal Factory expanded in the 19th century to include military swords, sabers, and bayonets. By 1868, new machine tools powered by the Tagus River significantly boosted production, though traditional forging methods continued for a time. Private craftsmen vs. mass production: While the state factory standardized and industrialized the process, private artisans like Ballesteros continued to operate. Ballesteros swords demonstrate that high-quality, custom work existed alongside the mass-produced weapons of the Royal Factory. Market changes: As firearms replaced swords as the primary military weapon, factories like Ballesteros and the Royal Factory adapted by producing both military blades and collectible pieces. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th October 2025 at 05:22 PM. |
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,935
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very different finish to the blade on this examples to all the others I have added to this thread.
https://auctionet.com/en/2760914-por...images#image_0 So sorry if I am boring the hind legs of a donkey. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th October 2025 at 06:55 PM. |
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 282
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Juan José Pérez intended to research the Ballesteros enterprise more than 10 years ago. He said so in the esgrima Antigua forum. That forum has had no traffic for five years now. And I did not hear any advance on Ballesteros. I guess it needs some real archival research, go to Toledo trade chamber and breath old papers dust. Nothing IA can do here.
There was a Juan Ballesteros in 1907, who had a shop in Toledo selling swords from the Fabrica and damascened works. Maybe go to Portuguese army archives and find the contracts for weapon adquisitions. Something I am thinking just now is that maybe Ballesteros arranged with the Fabrica de Toledo to make the swords there, but produced under his own mark. There is no an easy explanation to have instalations big enough to supply the Portuguese army dissapearing in no time. One of the swords he made has the same blade as the model called "de tirantes" for Spanish cavalry officers. Another thing is that Juan Ballesteros (1855 - 1933) did not work on his own until 1899, so his factory cannot be earlier than that. The advertisement below is from 1916. Last edited by midelburgo; 30th October 2025 at 06:27 PM. |
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