Lao Dha/daab

Sajen · 27th July 2025, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Similarly, I've not seen the "turtle" mark or those spine markings on "antique" swords. Always willing to be proven wrong.

Hi Ian,

So far I know is this turtle mark (so is this marking called by collectors in South-East-Asia) an old mark from this region, here are a few examples.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 27th July 2025, 01:44 PM

Hi Detlef,

The "turtle mark" was discussed in the old UBB Forum on this site, but unfortunately that platform was hacked and the files corrupted. IIRC, the mark was thought to be found on northern Thai/Lao daab starting in the 20th C, around the 1920s or so. It also extended into the 1970s and later on the poor quality tourist swords that U.S. Vietnam vets and other travelers brought home.

As I look at the three latest examples you posted, I would say the top one is probably post-WWII, the bottom one maybe WWII-era or thereaboiuts, and the middle one (a nice Lao daab) maybe pre-WWII). However, my earlier caveat about dating these daab from pictures applies--it is very difficult to estimate age without having them in hand, and even then not easy. My approximate ranking of their ages would still put them in my "vintage" category.

Iain Norman may have more information about these.

Regards, Ian.

kronckew · 28th July 2025, 04:59 AM

As far as I understand the turtle mark is a well known mark from as far back as the early 19thc possibly a bit before, and the swords shown in the last pics by Detlef are both later 19thc productions, and the silver one is not from Laos its a typical Lanna Thai sword in Lanna Thai silver dress - mounts from north Siam - Thailand.

Sajen · 28th July 2025, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

The "turtle mark" was discussed in the old UBB Forum on this site, but unfortunately that platform was hacked and the files corrupted. IIRC, the mark was thought to be found on northern Thai/Lao daab starting in the 20th C, around the 1920s or so. It also extended into the 1970s and later on the poor quality tourist swords that U.S. Vietnam vets and other travelers brought home.

Hi Ian,

I never have never seen the turtle mark on the blades from these tourist swords from the 70s.!?

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 28th July 2025, 09:07 PM

Detlef,

In a very old thread, Contemporary Thai daab, on the UBB platform (now gone) there were examples of the turtle stamp on daab brought back by US Vietnam War vets. I will see if I can find an example in my files. That thread was posted more than 20 years ago and is still referenced in the Classic Threads shown at the top of the Ethno Forum contents page. Unfortunately, you will get a "404" message if you click on the link.

Regards, Ian.

Iain · Yesterday, 01:57 PM

The so called turtle mark is generally common around Lampang and the surrounding areas and dates back to the 19th century as far as is generally known. You don't see as many of them in western collections but there are plenty of very nicely made blades showing it in Thai collections. As I've mentioned before on this thread, all dha/daab need to be judged based on all their attributes and not on a single blade mark or any other attribute. Does that mean you won't find that mark on much later swords? Of course not, but it is in no way a 'tourist' marking.

From Lampang the mark and/or blades seems to have been traded across the wider region and you see examples in Lao silver dress as Detlef as kindly posted an example of.

Keep in mind that handles, pommels and other fittings could and would be changed and refreshed during the working life of a sword. This is still common practice in the region and considered acceptable in local collecting circles to carry out quite extensive restorations.

I'd be happy to share some more resources on these swords as there are collectors in Thailand who specialize in these types, but these will of course be Thai language.

kronckew · Today, 08:22 AM

Thanks, Iain, I agree.

Today, 08:22 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,237	Thanks, Iain, I agree. Last edited by kronckew; Today at 08:40 AM.

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27th July 2025, 01:44 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Hi Detlef, The "turtle mark" was discussed in the old UBB Forum on this site, but unfortunately that platform was hacked and the files corrupted. IIRC, the mark was thought to be found on northern Thai/Lao daab starting in the 20th C, around the 1920s or so. It also extended into the 1970s and later on the poor quality tourist swords that U.S. Vietnam vets and other travelers brought home. As I look at the three latest examples you posted, I would say the top one is probably post-WWII, the bottom one maybe WWII-era or thereaboiuts, and the middle one (a nice Lao daab) maybe pre-WWII). However, my earlier caveat about dating these daab from pictures applies--it is very difficult to estimate age without having them in hand, and even then not easy. My approximate ranking of their ages would still put them in my "vintage" category. Iain Norman may have more information about these. Regards, Ian.

28th July 2025, 04:59 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,237	As far as I understand the turtle mark is a well known mark from as far back as the early 19thc possibly a bit before, and the swords shown in the last pics by Detlef are both later 19thc productions, and the silver one is not from Laos its a typical Lanna Thai sword in Lanna Thai silver dress - mounts from north Siam - Thailand.

28th July 2025, 09:07 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Detlef, In a very old thread, Contemporary Thai daab, on the UBB platform (now gone) there were examples of the turtle stamp on daab brought back by US Vietnam War vets. I will see if I can find an example in my files. That thread was posted more than 20 years ago and is still referenced in the Classic Threads shown at the top of the Ethno Forum contents page. Unfortunately, you will get a "404" message if you click on the link. Regards, Ian.

Yesterday, 01:57 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	The so called turtle mark is generally common around Lampang and the surrounding areas and dates back to the 19th century as far as is generally known. You don't see as many of them in western collections but there are plenty of very nicely made blades showing it in Thai collections. As I've mentioned before on this thread, all dha/daab need to be judged based on all their attributes and not on a single blade mark or any other attribute. Does that mean you won't find that mark on much later swords? Of course not, but it is in no way a 'tourist' marking. From Lampang the mark and/or blades seems to have been traded across the wider region and you see examples in Lao silver dress as Detlef as kindly posted an example of. Keep in mind that handles, pommels and other fittings could and would be changed and refreshed during the working life of a sword. This is still common practice in the region and considered acceptable in local collecting circles to carry out quite extensive restorations. I'd be happy to share some more resources on these swords as there are collectors in Thailand who specialize in these types, but these will of course be Thai language.