French colichemarde

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Thank-you for your help with this issue, it is much appreciated.
There seems to have been a rather wide variety of hilt styles with this pattern: mine (shown earlier) is different again with the pronounced double quillons.
What is most unusual is to have that French hilt on a Shotley Bridge blade.
I suppose French cuttlers could have access to London merchants during that period; let's face it, business is business, regardless of all else.
Do you happen to know what Matt had to say about it?
Anyway, thanks again. Keith.

Hi Keith,
While not able to add a lot here, I still follow as most interesting as always, Your command of Shotley and all related is unsurpassed.
Regarding the 'French connection' , there were always cross influences and diffusion between England and France AFIK. I know that during the Jacobite matters from late 17th through Culloden there was of course a great deal of 'staging' for the cause in France.
It seems there were many cases of blades with fleur de lis marks, and that at some location there was a 'fluer de lis' street in England where cutlers would acquire bundles of blades. I unfortunately cannot locate the source again (perhaps Aylward?).
I have seen blades with fluer de lis in British hilts pre Culloden, and there are suggestions this was a mark used in England...also suggested as the mark for the Paris arsenal.

What Im getting to is, would it be likely that French hilts, as a matter of fashion, would be mounted with Shotley blades?

While of course out of context, in the Spanish colonies in the Americas through the 18th century, it was not uncommon to see Toledo blades mounted in French hilts in the 'espadin' (small sword).

[Jim McDougall]

In rereading this thread, there is attention to the French M1767 regulation sword, In my understanding, the character of most 'regulation' swords in many if not most cases, is an official recognition of a standard pattern in use in a certain capacity by regular military forces. Often these simply record the forms already in use and simply record this and note as 'officially' sanctioned.

For example, with the British hangers of mid 18th century, these regarded as 'official' patterns were actually recognizing the two ubiquitous German style forms in use as depicted in two paintings for illustration of uniforms. The 'pattern' years were taken from the dates of the paintings.

With the colichemarde blade type, it seems to me that while evolved in the 17th century surrounded by a certain amount of 'lore' , it was intended primarily with the intent more pragmatically to respond to dueling or combat. According to some sources, these had fallen out of favor in the private sector by the latter part of first half of 18th c. and generally the trefoil blade had become more standard.

Meanwhile, the military with typical adherence to tradition and the attention to fashion and degree of flamboyance of officers, the colichemarde type blades remained popular with officers well through the 18th century.
The notion of its associations with dueling and robust character naturally appealed to most officers in the expected hubris oriented associations.

Military officers of course privately acquired their weapons, and nominally adhered to regulations in degree, but often notable variations occurred.

PS Radboud, thank you so much for adding these pages from these rather hard to acquire references!!!

[urbanspaceman]

Hi Jim. Here is a Google translation of the text in those pages; unfortunately not in order but easily discerned. I can send you them by email if you wish.