Persian knife

[Shane T]

Hello again
I have another mystery knife that appears middle eastern. I have not been able to decipher the inscription on blade which is duplicated on the paper in photo.
This little knife appears to be a smokers knife, again have never seen one similar. The Koftgari is very fine and well done, the handle appears to be a type of ivory. What do you all think. I bought it from a dealer who bought it at a flea market in Spain.
Cheers Shane

[Ren Ren]

The knife from Sri Lanka. The kind used by the scribes of sacred Buddhist texts made from palm leaves.

[Ian]

Hi Shane,

Welcome to the Forum! Thanks for posting this interesting knife.

I think this one is likely Asian/SE Asian in origin. The inlaid decoration on the spine of the blade is reminiscent of designs found widely in SE Asia. I've tried to match the letters on the blade to various SE Asian alphabets, but all I can say is that it is not standard Thai, Burmese, or Cambodian (Khmer). One or two of the characters have somewhat of a resemblance to Chu Nom, an old Vietnamese alphabet.

It's possible your knife comes from one of the French Indo-Chinese colonies. I say this because the fluted ivory handle scales are similar to scales seen on some French daggers of the 19th C. Italian styles were similar for some of the "vendetta" knives also.

Another possibility is southern China, notably Yunnan Province.

As to what it was used for, if I am correct about the SE Asian origin of this knife, then I think it was likely an opium knife used for scouring opium pods to extract the latex. There are some fancy opium knives around, and I have seen some with ivory scales.

Opium knives are not something I collect, so I don't have an item to show that look similar. Perhaps some of our fellow forumites have one.

[wildwolberine]

I like it! I found some similar knives in this thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17603

I hope that’s helpful

[Ian]

Ren Ren, thank you for redirecting thinking to Sri Lanka. I was able to find most of the letters on the blade in the Tamil alphabet, and the Tamil are indeed an important minority group in Sri Lanka. The inscription of text on palm leaves is something that was very common in Burma and other areas in SE Asia, but I did not associate that practice with Sri Lanka.

The form of these scribe knives is usually to have a convex spine, rather than the deeply concave spine of this example, at least for the Burmese examples I've seen. Perhaps the Southern Asian version is different.

How this example ended up in Spain is an interesting thought. Maybe a Portuguese traveler was involved.

[Sajen]

Ren Ren is correct, see also here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=scribe+knives

Attached a pic of my ones.

BTW, the one in question is the nicest one I've seen so far!

[Shane T]

Hey thanks for all your thoughts, to Ian i did think of an opium knife but it was a bit flash for a field knife, I went through so many languages even sanskrit but never Tamil so thank you Ren Ren i am now fully clued up on this particular knife.I did think it was for something a bit special as it is ivory and very well made. It has been very interesting.
Thanks again and love the site.
All the best Shane

[Rick]

I have a question about the examples you showed, Detlef. The two knives with wood handles have finials at their ends; what would be their use be?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

I have a question about the examples you showed, Detlef. The two knives with wood handles have finials at their ends; what would be their use be?

Hello Rick,

Sorry, I don't have a clue! And I don't have them by hand, I've stored them somewhere.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

The form of these scribe knives is usually to have a convex spine, rather than the deeply concave spine of this example, at least for the Burmese examples I've seen. Perhaps the Southern Asian version is different.

Hi Ian,

I know these knives only from South India and Sri Lanka but never have seen examples from Burma. Would you mind sharing pictures from examples you have seen?

Best regards,
Detlef

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by Ian

Ren Ren, thank you for redirecting thinking to Sri Lanka. I was able to find most of the letters on the blade in the Tamil alphabet, and the Tamil are indeed an important minority group in Sri Lanka. The inscription of text on palm leaves is something that was very common in Burma and other areas in SE Asia, but I did not associate that practice with Sri Lanka.

The form of these scribe knives is usually to have a convex spine, rather than the deeply concave spine of this example, at least for the Burmese examples I've seen. Perhaps the Southern Asian version is different.

How this example ended up in Spain is an interesting thought. Maybe a Portuguese traveler was involved.

Every time I manage to do something useful for my precious colleagues in the hobby of antique cold arms, I pour myself a small glass of vodka or Caucasian brandy, drink it and thank God that He gave me the opportunity to help my neighbors. But this happens so rarely that I have no opportunity to turn into an alcoholic

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Ian,

I know these knives only from South India and Sri Lanka but never have seen examples from Burma. Would you mind sharing pictures from examples you have seen?

Best regards,
Detlef

That was a great question, Detlef! When I saw these scribe knives from Sri Lanka a few years ago, I sent a photo of them to some Buddhist friends in Thailand. They told me that there are many types of sacred Buddhist knives in Thailand, but that there are none like them. They also explained that in their country, sacred texts on palm leaves have not been copied by hand for a long time, but are printed using the woodcut method, from engraved wooden blocks. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to find out how this is done in Burma, but all these years this thought has not left my head.
Sincerely, Serge

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Every time I manage to do something useful for my precious colleagues in the hobby of antique cold arms, I pour myself a small glass of vodka or Caucasian brandy, drink it and thank God that He gave me the opportunity to help my neighbors. But this happens so rarely that I have no opportunity to turn into an alcoholic

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

That was a great question, Detlef! When I saw these scribe knives from Sri Lanka a few years ago, I sent a photo of them to some Buddhist friends in Thailand. They told me that there are many types of sacred Buddhist knives in Thailand, but that there are none like them. They also explained that in their country, sacred texts on palm leaves have not been copied by hand for a long time, but are printed using the woodcut method, from engraved wooden blocks. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to find out how this is done in Burma, but all these years this thought has not left my head.
Sincerely, Serge

Hello Serge,

I know that the Bali Aga people still write on palm leaves which get sold to tourists but I can't remember how the script gets written. But I have no knowledge how it's done in Burma, so my question.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Detlef,

My recollection of Burmese scribe knives dates back to the late 1990s when I was shown six or so examples by a dealer in Hong Kong (IIRC). Unfortunately, I don't have pictures. He was unsure what they were used for, but in retrospect they were scribe knives. I do recall that one or two had typical Burmese "bubble script" inscribed on the handles. I was not particularly interested in small Burmese knives at that time, and did not acquire them.

Apparently, there are some differences between old Tamil and Burmese manuscripts. I have read that the Tamil palm leaves were shorter than the Burmese, although the scribing technique was similar.

Ian