Nubian? dagger

Lew · 2nd July 2006, 09:35 PM

[QUOTE=ariel]I have to respectfully disagree. I have yet to see a Sudanese blade of even minimally better-than-primitive quality.

Ariel

There happens to have been some exceptional Sudanese pieces made for the wealthier class back in the late 1800s. This one is from Artzi's website. Notice the similarity in the blade shape and grind lines they are nearly identical. This dagger is as far from primitive as it gets.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2006, 11:27 PM

Lew,
Thanks for posting the fantastic Sudanese dagger!!! Artzi definitely has a knack for presenting outstanding items.
The four pronged geometric stamp at the forte is most interesting, any ideas on its meaning? Could it be makers mark/arsenal stamp?
The silverwork seems consistant with kaskara mountings found in Darfur, would this be considered a Fur weapon?

Best regards,
jim

Lew · 3rd July 2006, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Lew,
Thanks for posting the fantastic Sudanese dagger!!! Artzi definitely has a knack for presenting outstanding items.
The four pronged geometric stamp at the forte is most interesting, any ideas on its meaning? Could it be makers mark/arsenal stamp?
The silverwork seems consistant with kaskara mountings found in Darfur, would this be considered a Fur weapon?

Best regards,
jim

Jim

I heard that it represents a famous battle or siege but this can be another urban legend. I have a dagger with the same stamp. These daggers were made in Omdurman which is a few miles west of Khartoum I do not think they were Dafur.
Lew

CharlesS · 3rd July 2006, 03:26 AM

Sight yet unseen, I am convinced that this is Sudanese. Both the blade and the hilt seem so to me. If you look at the pics with close ups of the blade, you will see the blade is not as crisp as at first glance, though still quite good by the standards of this area, and possibly inspired from elsewhere.

Lew · 3rd July 2006, 04:29 PM

Jim

I think that four pointed symbol represents the battle of Omdurman 1898. I have seen this on a few period daggers that were dated 1899 and 1900 in Arabic. This is just my theory. Here is an interesting fact He was devout, had flashing eyes, and possessed other marks of the Mahdi: a V-shaped aperture between his front two teeth, a birthmark on his right cheek, his ancestry, and his origin from the east. These were all seen as favorable signs that he was the true Mahdi. Notice those 4 symbols are V shaped? They could have some connection to Mad Madhi?

Lew

Lew · 16th August 2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Lew,

The four pronged geometric stamp at the forte is most interesting, any ideas on its meaning? Could it be makers mark/arsenal stamp?

Best regards,
jim

Jim

I have a friend who works at the Museum of Natural History and he says it is a representation of the battle of Omdurman. The British ranks were formed in a the shape of a square and were surrounded by the enemy fighters and stamp on the dagger is some type of commemoration of that battle.

Lew

derek · 20th August 2006, 02:50 AM

Totally gratuitous to add this, but it's one of my favorites, and I've never seen any others so close to it.
-d

Lew · 20th August 2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek

Totally gratuitous to add this, but it's one of my favorites, and I've never seen any others so close to it.
-d

Derek

Yes that dagger has the most lovely fuller work I have seen and would look wonderful hanging next to this one

Lew

2nd July 2006, 09:35 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=ariel]I have to respectfully disagree. I have yet to see a Sudanese blade of even minimally better-than-primitive quality. Ariel There happens to have been some exceptional Sudanese pieces made for the wealthier class back in the late 1800s. This one is from Artzi's website. Notice the similarity in the blade shape and grind lines they are nearly identical. This dagger is as far from primitive as it gets. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 3rd July 2006 at 01:58 AM.

3rd July 2006, 04:29 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jim I think that four pointed symbol represents the battle of Omdurman 1898. I have seen this on a few period daggers that were dated 1899 and 1900 in Arabic. This is just my theory. Here is an interesting fact He was devout, had flashing eyes, and possessed other marks of the Mahdi: a V-shaped aperture between his front two teeth, a birthmark on his right cheek, his ancestry, and his origin from the east. These were all seen as favorable signs that he was the true Mahdi. Notice those 4 symbols are V shaped? They could have some connection to Mad Madhi? Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 3rd July 2006 at 04:49 PM.

20th August 2006, 02:50 AM	#7
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Totally gratuitous to add this, but it's one of my favorites, and I've never seen any others so close to it. -d Attached Images

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2nd July 2006, 11:27 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,868	Lew, Thanks for posting the fantastic Sudanese dagger!!! Artzi definitely has a knack for presenting outstanding items. The four pronged geometric stamp at the forte is most interesting, any ideas on its meaning? Could it be makers mark/arsenal stamp? The silverwork seems consistant with kaskara mountings found in Darfur, would this be considered a Fur weapon? Best regards, jim

3rd July 2006, 03:26 AM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Sight yet unseen, I am convinced that this is Sudanese. Both the blade and the hilt seem so to me. If you look at the pics with close ups of the blade, you will see the blade is not as crisp as at first glance, though still quite good by the standards of this area, and possibly inspired from elsewhere.