Bugis keris

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm pretty much on the same page as David, Paul, his comments echo what my own would be.

As for the overall paucity of action, I feel that there are probably several reasons for that, but if I needed to name just one it might be that everybody has a lot more on their mind at the moment than keris, and for that matter, other interests that might be classified as side interests.

Right now the world seems to entering a darker time, there are other, more pressing things to occupy our thoughts than our hobbies.

[Green]

i come to this forum just about every day religiously in the hope that there are new threads /posts or inputs on old posts.

Too bad that it has become rather empty lately. I do find this forum the only one that people do put effort to discuss honestly and seriously and my hat off to people like mr Maisey, David, Jean etc that i've benefited a lot in my keris knowledge from their comments on various keris matter.

[jagabuwana]

While it would be nice if this forum were more lively, I can understand why it isn't (anymore), for reasons mentioned by Alan and David.

The reality is that there really aren't that many Anglophone or English-speaking keris interested people.
And of that number I would say there are even less who like to, or have the knowledge to discuss and study the keris in the way that is often seen in this forum.
I think it's easy for us to underrate just how niche this interest is. It may not be as niche in the keris' home land, but we are an English-speaking forum.

There are also only so many keris in our possession that we can share or ask about. My collection is small, I don't add to it just for the sake of accumulating another keris, and sadly at the moment I find myself quite bereft of questions or contributions. There's plenty of contemplation, but this is not the forum for contemplation.

[Anthony G.]

According to a good friend from Sulawesi, it seems to be made of a variation of pamor Kurrisi.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Anthony G.

According to a good friend from Sulawesi, it seems to be made of a variation of pamor Kurrisi.

According to the reference Bugis keris book, La Kurisi seems to be one of the pamor techniques used in Sulawesi (apparently similar to pamor puntiran in Java?), alongwith La Toasi, La Kajing, La Gecong, (La) Gantara.

[A. G. Maisey]

I feel, that to a degree you are correct Milandro, I have noted that long before the presence of covid there was a tendency for people to jump in, ask a few questions, pass a comment or two, and then more or less disappear.

I have thought about this over time, and I believe that there are several factors involved. I feel that one of those factors could be the nature of the keris itself:- it can be quite difficult to come to an understanding of the nature of the keris, and of the multitude of aspects that it presents.

Several very well known & prolific contributors to other divisions of this Forum have commented to me in private correspondence that as they began to come to a slightly better understanding of the keris, they discovered that there were elements involved in a serious study of the keris that did not appeal to them, and so they lost interest.

I would be the first to admit that study of the keris does require a great deal of dedication over an extended period of time, and in the present day & age this sort of lengthy road needed to reach an objective seems to be not particularly popular.

Many people are simply collectors of objects, they have no desire at all to put forward the time & effort that is required to even accumulate and classify the keris.

I can see nothing negative in this rather simple approach, but it does seem to militate against somebody who wants quick results and instant satisfaction being able to satisfy his needs.

We could probably put together a whole list of reasons why we do not see as much action in this Keris Forum as we might like, but I do not wish to do that myself, perhaps some other people might like to offer a comment or three ?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We could probably put together a whole list of reasons why we do not see as much action in this Keris Forum as we might like, but I do not wish to do that myself, perhaps some other people might like to offer a comment or three ?

Some suggestions for explaining the progressing lack of interest in this keris Forum:
. The Covid pandemic has deeply affected the keris trade (people had other priorities), especially the commercial relationship between the Western collectors and the Indonesian dealers & collectors. It is now more difficult & costly to ship a keris to Indonesia for maintenance, or to receive one.
. The market for old krisses is largely depleted after years of strong interest due to the Unesco nomination of the keris in 2005. Since 2020 I could see only few attractive keris offers in European auctions such as Czerny's in Italy, and the reached prices for good pieces were discouraging for the average collectors.
. The keris collectors are ageing and no longer collecting or selling their collections, and the young generations are not much interested.
. The more stringent ivory ban has deeply affected the trade of ivory hilts.
. There is not much new knowledge emerging from the forum as most of the contributors have exhausted their resources.
Regards

[Anthony G.]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I feel, that to a degree you are correct Milandro, I have noted that long before the presence of covid there was a tendency for people to jump in, ask a few questions, pass a comment or two, and then more or less disappear.

I have thought about this over time, and I believe that there are several factors involved. I feel that one of those factors could be the nature of the keris itself:- it can be quite difficult to come to an understanding of the nature of the keris, and of the multitude of aspects that it presents.

Several very well known & prolific contributors to other divisions of this Forum have commented to me in private correspondence that as they began to come to a slightly better understanding of the keris, they discovered that there were elements involved in a serious study of the keris that did not appeal to them, and so they lost interest.

I would be the first to admit that study of the keris does require a great deal of dedication over an extended period of time, and in the present day & age this sort of lengthy road needed to reach an objective seems to be not particularly popular.

Many people are simply collectors of objects, they have no desire at all to put forward the time & effort that is required to even accumulate and classify the keris.

I can see nothing negative in this rather simple approach, but it does seem to militate against somebody who wants quick results and instant satisfaction being able to satisfy his needs.

We could probably put together a whole list of reasons why we do not see as much action in this Keris Forum as we might like, but I do not wish to do that myself, perhaps some other people might like to offer a comment or three ?

Dear all,

Personally I like this forum and visited it almost daily. This is a place where I can obtain conservative 2nd opinions rather than modern made up stories.

Some collectors just collect keris and they see it as a hobby rather than it is a serious thing that deserve study. And not many are willing to spend time and good efforts reading books about keris etc. I still felt that this forum will still serves it's purposes in years to come until senior knowledgeable members pass on to the other side.

I suppose to each of his own. I always told myself that rather than waiting for others to make the first step/move, why don't I make that first move instead and starting probing questions etc...............

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Green

Too bad that it has become rather empty lately...

Since this has been brought up a few times now in this thread (and it has been on my mind often during the short time that I have been a member) let me , please, take some time and space to discuss it (although it may be better to open a thread about it)

I come to the forum often for reference and information BUT very seldom see new stuff.

New discussions are often cut very short after they are opened and I often see new members who are just participating for a short while and then no longer post. As far as I can tell ( reading through the posts) this was true even before the pandemic and the war so I wouldn’t ascribe it on the things happening in the world.

Truth to be told , the fora ( I have a long term experience elsewhere) are all suffering a diminishing interest because of the fact that their population is getting older and there is little fresh blood....BUT...

I think it is necessary to have some honest looking into the mirror and ask oneself the question why so many members knock on the door, which means they are obviously interested and motivated( by the way becoming a member requires some effort and waiting), then they ONLY briefly participate and then they silently go away...

If anything, the things happening in the world should motivate people to seek refuge in places like this rather then deter them from taking part!

I see no shortage of collectors (even young) in the Netherlands ( certainly one place in the world which after Indonesia has one of the highest density of krises per person in the world) , most of whom are capable to express their thoughts and questions in English and I have met and know several of them in the short time that I’ve become a kris person(if you pass me this expression) but some have expressed mixed feelings about this forum. Some people have been positively feeling a lot of resistance and few even told me they didn’t particularly feel that their contribution was appreciated much or felt welcome at all.

Now, obviously it is not my place to say what the forum should or shouldn’t be or do but if I had a restaurant where only few people occasionally sit, nibble a little and then come by only few times they they then stay away and never return, you can certainly blame it on the patrons themselves BUT, it is a good idea to look at the menu and whether the patrons feel welcome to stay and linger on or not.