British 1803 pattern flank officer sword?

Radboud · 26th November 2021, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

From here, beginning with Thomas Gill, he began to place the motto on the blade, 'WARRANTED NEVER TO FAIL'. I have a M1788 Thomas Gill saber
with that inscription on the back of the blade. Through the 1790s as late as perhaps 1810, he and several English makers would place the 'warranted' notice on their blades, though typically officers along with etched or inscribed motif.

If it helps, I have a 1796 LC marked Gill’s Warranted that dates to no earlier than 1817.

Radboud · 26th November 2021, 11:59 AM

Interesting hanger Cel, does it have a Royal Cypher on the blade?
The markings look late 18th Century, very early 19th Century to me.

Personally I don’t think the blade has been shortened as the termination of the fuller follows the curve of the blade tip.

Cheers
Bas

kronckew · 26th November 2021, 07:57 PM

I note the original posted sword scabbard appears to have once had a stud like a scabbard for an infantry briquet/hanger frog rather than the two ring suspension for a sabre.

"Warranted never to fail"

If it fails on the battlefield/naval boarding, bring it back, and we'll replace it.

Reminds me of what they tell a Paratrooper when they issue him his parachute.

Also reminds me of mine:25" (63.5 cm) blade, 2" (5.08 cm) wide at guard: The fuller is centred down to the start of the false edge, then starts to divert down away from the point as it fades away as the blade thins.

cel7 · 26th November 2021, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

Interesting hanger Cel, does it have a Royal Cypher on the blade?
The markings look late 18th Century, very early 19th Century to me.

Personally I don’t think the blade has been shortened as the termination of the fuller follows the curve of the blade tip.

Cheers
Bas

No Royal Cypher on the blade, Radboud. Only floral motifs drums and banners

Richard G · 29th November 2021, 05:36 PM

I'm going to expound on a couple of points made earlier in this thread.

I'm not sure an engraved blade denotes officer status as such. In the UK most officer's swords were privately purchased and presumably this was the major demand. Hence if you went to a sword cutler for an individual purchase you would most probably be offered a blade of 'officer' type, i.e. decorated to greater or lesser extent, even if you were not an officer. Thus I think a decorated blade probably denotes a private purchase blade rather than one supplied through the contracting system, and not necessarily an officer's.

Depending on your definition, I would dispute that constabulary hangers etc. were of 'munitions' grade. The later Parker Field hangers, altho' rather plain were of a greater functional quality and finish than most military swords, including those of officers. This also applied to early police pistols; plain, robust, functional and in no way inferior to military issue. Also consider those early police truncheons; turned, painted, gilded, way beyond 'munitions' grade.

Prior to police reform in the early 19th Cent. Parish Constable was an ancient official position with a number of associated official duties, e.g. administration of courts. The Parish Constable might well be a landowner, merchant or businessman that would consider himself of 'officer' class. Remember the head of a UK police force is still the Chief Constable.

Other civilian weapons of the time that survive, e,g. Mail blunderbusses, Bank of England muskets, are also of 'better than they need be' quality.

The point I am making is that an early 19th Cent constable's hanger might well show similarities with an officer's sword.

Regards
Richard

26th November 2021, 07:57 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,278	I note the original posted sword scabbard appears to have once had a stud like a scabbard for an infantry briquet/hanger frog rather than the two ring suspension for a sabre. "Warranted never to fail" If it fails on the battlefield/naval boarding, bring it back, and we'll replace it. Reminds me of what they tell a Paratrooper when they issue him his parachute. Also reminds me of mine:25" (63.5 cm) blade, 2" (5.08 cm) wide at guard: The fuller is centred down to the start of the false edge, then starts to divert down away from the point as it fades away as the blade thins. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 26th November 2021 at 08:28 PM.

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26th November 2021, 11:59 AM	#2
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 300	Interesting hanger Cel, does it have a Royal Cypher on the blade? The markings look late 18th Century, very early 19th Century to me. Personally I don’t think the blade has been shortened as the termination of the fuller follows the curve of the blade tip. Cheers Bas

29th November 2021, 05:36 PM	#5
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 417	I'm going to expound on a couple of points made earlier in this thread. I'm not sure an engraved blade denotes officer status as such. In the UK most officer's swords were privately purchased and presumably this was the major demand. Hence if you went to a sword cutler for an individual purchase you would most probably be offered a blade of 'officer' type, i.e. decorated to greater or lesser extent, even if you were not an officer. Thus I think a decorated blade probably denotes a private purchase blade rather than one supplied through the contracting system, and not necessarily an officer's. Depending on your definition, I would dispute that constabulary hangers etc. were of 'munitions' grade. The later Parker Field hangers, altho' rather plain were of a greater functional quality and finish than most military swords, including those of officers. This also applied to early police pistols; plain, robust, functional and in no way inferior to military issue. Also consider those early police truncheons; turned, painted, gilded, way beyond 'munitions' grade. Prior to police reform in the early 19th Cent. Parish Constable was an ancient official position with a number of associated official duties, e.g. administration of courts. The Parish Constable might well be a landowner, merchant or businessman that would consider himself of 'officer' class. Remember the head of a UK police force is still the Chief Constable. Other civilian weapons of the time that survive, e,g. Mail blunderbusses, Bank of England muskets, are also of 'better than they need be' quality. The point I am making is that an early 19th Cent constable's hanger might well show similarities with an officer's sword. Regards Richard