Awesome Jacobite period basket hilt broadsword

M ELEY · 15th September 2021, 08:53 PM

Jim, you are amazing!! Thank you for this incredible back information and the comparison to MacGregor's sword is humbling! I wasn't aware Rob Roy's weapon still survived! I had also wondered about the symbols used on these pieces, but understand that there is a lot of guesswork when it comes to meaning versus design. Perhaps each smith had their own 'totum' or variation however subtle, to indicate clan, region, affiliation. As much of this was 'forbidden' during the time of the troubles (again, if one suspects they represented more than just decor), we may never know. Secret societies, Freemasonry and various other mystical clubs were alive and well during this time period after all!

Jim McDougall · 15th September 2021, 09:22 PM

Thank you Capn, this was very exciting research!!! While my comparisons to the Rob Roy sword may seem optimistic to some, I think there is more than reasonable plausibility to place your sword in these Argyll regions in that late 17th century period.

There was of course elements of totemic, occult, arcane and other symbolisms imbued in makers markings etc. and the Jacobite symbols were simply used broadly by devotees of this broad movement. Most of the makers who signed their hilts just used their own initials, these were the Simpsons and Allen's as well as Thomas Gemmill. I think there were others but cannot specify offhand.

The symbolic devices used in the decoration of hilts were not specific to any one maker, but as often the case, they were individually drawn to favor particular themes. Case in point were the Stirling hilts, which tended to be more 'designed' with more elaborate styling. The Glasgow were a bit more rudimentary following structural form with piercings in the plates.

Secret societies were of course rampant in these times, and elements of magic, occult, etc. mixed with Masonic, religious and political elements.
These were times of intrigue, of all kinds, and these wonderful swords hold the secrets and tales of them!

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15th September 2021, 08:53 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,204	Jim, you are amazing!! Thank you for this incredible back information and the comparison to MacGregor's sword is humbling! I wasn't aware Rob Roy's weapon still survived! I had also wondered about the symbols used on these pieces, but understand that there is a lot of guesswork when it comes to meaning versus design. Perhaps each smith had their own 'totum' or variation however subtle, to indicate clan, region, affiliation. As much of this was 'forbidden' during the time of the troubles (again, if one suspects they represented more than just decor), we may never know. Secret societies, Freemasonry and various other mystical clubs were alive and well during this time period after all!

15th September 2021, 09:22 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,661	Thank you Capn, this was very exciting research!!! While my comparisons to the Rob Roy sword may seem optimistic to some, I think there is more than reasonable plausibility to place your sword in these Argyll regions in that late 17th century period. There was of course elements of totemic, occult, arcane and other symbolisms imbued in makers markings etc. and the Jacobite symbols were simply used broadly by devotees of this broad movement. Most of the makers who signed their hilts just used their own initials, these were the Simpsons and Allen's as well as Thomas Gemmill. I think there were others but cannot specify offhand. The symbolic devices used in the decoration of hilts were not specific to any one maker, but as often the case, they were individually drawn to favor particular themes. Case in point were the Stirling hilts, which tended to be more 'designed' with more elaborate styling. The Glasgow were a bit more rudimentary following structural form with piercings in the plates. Secret societies were of course rampant in these times, and elements of magic, occult, etc. mixed with Masonic, religious and political elements. These were times of intrigue, of all kinds, and these wonderful swords hold the secrets and tales of them!