Greek Kariophili/Rasak Musket

[kwiatek]

The inscription on the barrel reads, with a misspelling

عاملى (كذا) حاجى شعبان

“Work of Haci Şaban”

The second inscription is very poorly written, and partially concealed. I think the photo is also out of focus. I think it reads as follows, but if you send a better image I might be able to confirm it

(صاحب [و] مالك طوپجو(؟) خوجه (خواجه

“The owner and possessor Topçu(?) Hoca”

Topçu means “artillery officer” and hoca means “master”. Both inscriptions are in Ottoman Turkish

[kahnjar1]

Hi Rick,
It looks as if a number of things have become clearer from the comments above. The script has now been identified as Turkish and you have the translation.
You make mention about the trigger guard (not present on your gun) Elgoods book on Greek weapons shows virtually all Kariophili WITH a trigger guard and the rear of the trigger having a small pierced decoration. Yours however is more like the Rasak, lacking a trigger guard, and a plain "hooked" end to the trigger itself. I am not for one minute suggesting that your gun is not a Kariophili, simply that it has features of the Rasak also.
Once again, you have a VERY nice gun there.
As an aside to Kwiatek's translation above, Topcu has other meanings also, (perhaps notibly) it is also the name of a couple of villages/towns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top%C3%A7u so if Hoca is translated as "Master" then is it possible that this gun once belonged to the Head Man of the village/town of Topcu? Just a thought............
Stu

[kwiatek]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

As an aside to Kwiatek's translation above, Topcu has other meanings also, (perhaps notibly) it is also the name of a couple of villages/towns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top%C3%A7u so if Hoca is translated as "Master" then is it possible that this gun once belonged to the Head Man of the village/town of Topcu? Just a thought............
Stu

I think it’s almost certainly a personal name. Hoca is used very commonly as part of names and nicknames (most famously Nasrettin Hoca) or to denote someone who is master of a skill or a profession. Grammatically, it does not make sense to read it as “Hoca of Topcu”, which would instead be written in Turkish as “Topculu Hoca” or “Hoca-i Topcu” or “Topcu Hocası”.

I suspect also that the various villages called Topcu were named after famous artillery soldiers who lived there. -çu at the end of a word denotes a profession (“top” being a ball or cannon).

Interesting pieces, thanks for sharing.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Rick,
It looks as if a number of things have become clearer from the comments above. The script has now been identified as Turkish and you have the translation.
You make mention about the trigger guard (not present on your gun) Elgoods book on Greek weapons shows virtually all Kariophili WITH a trigger guard and the rear of the trigger having a small pierced decoration. Yours however is more like the Rasak, lacking a trigger guard, and a plain "hooked" end to the trigger itself. I am not for one minute suggesting that your gun is not a Kariophili, simply that it has features of the Rasak also.
Once again, you have a VERY nice gun there.
As an aside to Kwiatek's translation above, Topcu has other meanings also, (perhaps notibly) it is also the name of a couple of villages/towns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top%C3%A7u so if Hoca is translated as "Master" then is it possible that this gun once belonged to the Head Man of the village/town of Topcu? Just a thought............
Stu

Hi Stu

Last night I was reading and studying photos in Elgood's books. And I'm inclined to agree with your last assessments. Overall, the gun was built in the style of a Rasak. And the style of miquelet lock is the most common you see on both Albanian long guns and pistols.
"Work of" could apply to the barrel only. But in this case it would seem to make more sense that it applies to the maker of the entire gun. While the stock and iron fittings do not have the decorative content of the barrel, the overall build quality of the gun is excellent. Only weighs between 6-7-lbs. Would be an excellent gun to carry through hills and mountainous areas.
"The owner and possessor" would obviously apply to the owner of the gun.

So, what do I have ? LOL It wood seem the gun was built by a Turkish gun builder, using a Turkish made barrel, for a Turkish customer, with a preference for the style of the Rasak long guns similar to ones coming from southern Albania and the like.

Kwiatek: Thank you again for the additional clarification.

Rick

[kwiatek]

Thanks for the photo, that’s much clearer, though I am not sure of the reading of “Topçu” now! The name is hard to make out. The fact that it is in Ottoman Turkish does not mean that the owner was necessarily Turkish though as Turkish would have been understood by most people of rank in Anatolia, the Balkans and parts of the Arab-speaking Ottoman domains. Interesting piece, thanks again for sharing

[kahnjar1]

Hi Rick,
What ever your gun is....Kariophili or Rasak....it's a real gem and I am sure that there are many on this Forum who wished that they owned it. By the way the weight of my Kariophili is just 6lb so much the same as yours.
Regards Stu

[rickystl]

Again, thank you ALL for your replies. And a special thank you to Kwiatek for the translations. Much appreciated.

Rick

[cyten]

Wonderful acquisition, Ricky! Having never examined one in person (outside a museum) are these normally rifled?

And to the Kariophili vs Rasak debate, just what is the difference? Not having any reference material myself (waiting for a good deal on Elgood) I have always just thought the ones with a miquelet lock without a triggerguard were Rasak and the flintlock with triggerguard were Kariophili. One being "truly Hellenic" the other being Slavic/Balkan/Turkish influenced. But that was always an assumption.

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by kwiatek

The inscription on the barrel reads, with a misspelling

عاملى (كذا) حاجى شعبان

“Work of Haci Şaban”

The second inscription is very poorly written, and partially concealed. I think the photo is also out of focus. I think it reads as follows, but if you send a better image I might be able to confirm it

(صاحب [و] مالك طوپجو(؟) خوجه (خواجه

“The owner and possessor Topçu(?) Hoca”

Topçu means “artillery officer” and hoca means “master”. Both inscriptions are in Ottoman Turkish

Hi Kwiatek

Thank you VERY much for the translation. Much appreciated. Shows how valuable this Forum can be.
Yes, the barrel tang screw/hole is partially covering up the script. And the gold overlay is not done quite as well as the other. And yes, that photo does appear to be a bit out of focus. For some reason I'm having difficulty getting the light at the right angle. Here are two more pics of both. See if this helps (?)

Rick