Afghan shashkas

ariel · 25th September 2019, 08:12 PM

Charles,

Alternatively, it was a shamshir to start with, with replaced handle and suspension rings put upside down.
This can explain the slit on the throat in a "wrong" i.e. reverse location. This was very unusual, if not unseen, on pseudo-shashkas, but necessary for highly curved shamshirs.

Jim McDougall · 25th September 2019, 10:12 PM

This is a magnificent shashka!! and with this blade even more exciting.
As Charles well notes, this is one of the Persian trade blades with the Assad Allah cartouche and lion pictograph with the calligraphy panel.
These blades are well described in Oliver Pinchot's article of 2002 in "Arms Collecting" (Vo. 40, #1, February).

As Elgood has noted these blades along with Caucasian blades entered the Arabian sphere, as well as their being found in India and other spheres receiving such trade blades. I have a Bedouin sabre with this same blade form, but much shallower curve.

That is what is so unusual and more attractive on this particular example is the more parabolic blade than usually seen with these Persian trade blades. With Ottoman kilij ofcourse, the deep parabolic blade has the slit opening in the throat of the scabbard to allow passage of the blade exiting the scabbard.
It is most unusual to see this on the reverse carry which is a Caucasian affinity for the draw cut in sort of 'quick draw' style.

While a bit of an anomaly, it is fantastic! I have actually never seen a shamshir with one of these blades, at least per se'. It seems most I have seen are in various local hilt forms as noted with use of these trade blades.

mariusgmioc · 26th September 2019, 08:23 AM

I tend to agree with Ariel.
This is an original Persian shamshir converted into a Shashka. The scabbard also appears to be the original one, modified for the new purpose.
But, this is my speculation...

ariel · 26th September 2019, 10:29 AM

Marius,
Easy to check. Shamshirs have tangs arising from the middle of the blade. Here it arises from the side. X-Ray the handle and look for additional holes.
I am also a little bit spooked by the 5th pic from the top: the big fitting with the suspension ring seems to be somewhat out of alignment with the leather.
At the end of the day it is immaterial: even if the scabbard and the handle were reworked, it was done during active life of the sword. But still would be interesting: no matter when and how, but the slit at the throat is on the wrong side of the scabbard.
It is not a fake by any standard; at the worst case it was a major modification.

mahratt · 26th September 2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I tend to agree with Ariel.
This is an original Persian shamshir converted into a Shashka. The scabbard also appears to be the original one, modified for the new purpose.
But, this is my speculation...

Marius, I would agree with you. But! As you can see in the first photo, the handle of this shashka is very deeply hidden in scabbard. So I think that the master made these scabbard specifically for this shashka

mariusgmioc · 26th September 2019, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Marius, I would agree with you. But! As you can see in the first photo, the handle of this shashka is very deeply hidden in scabbard. So I think that the master made these scabbard specifically for this shashka

Or the blade was shortened by cutting off the tang (or part of it) and placing the new shashka hilt lower... (this is very common for Japanese swords).

mahratt · 26th September 2019, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Or the blade was shortened by cutting off the tang (or part of it) and placing the new shashka hilt lower... (this is very common for Japanese swords).

Ok. But why then make scabbard in the upper part oval (in cross section)? This is good for shashka. But it is not necessary for shamshir.

mariusgmioc · 26th September 2019, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Ok. But why then make scabbard in the upper part oval (in cross section)? This is good for shashka. But it is not necessary for shamshir.

Good point!

You are probably right as the scabbard for a shamshir would only have a slot for the blade and would not fit a hilt.

26th September 2019, 10:29 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Marius, Easy to check. Shamshirs have tangs arising from the middle of the blade. Here it arises from the side. X-Ray the handle and look for additional holes. I am also a little bit spooked by the 5th pic from the top: the big fitting with the suspension ring seems to be somewhat out of alignment with the leather. At the end of the day it is immaterial: even if the scabbard and the handle were reworked, it was done during active life of the sword. But still would be interesting: no matter when and how, but the slit at the throat is on the wrong side of the scabbard. It is not a fake by any standard; at the worst case it was a major modification. Last edited by ariel; 26th September 2019 at 10:46 AM.

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25th September 2019, 08:12 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Charles, Alternatively, it was a shamshir to start with, with replaced handle and suspension rings put upside down. This can explain the slit on the throat in a "wrong" i.e. reverse location. This was very unusual, if not unseen, on pseudo-shashkas, but necessary for highly curved shamshirs.

25th September 2019, 10:12 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	This is a magnificent shashka!! and with this blade even more exciting. As Charles well notes, this is one of the Persian trade blades with the Assad Allah cartouche and lion pictograph with the calligraphy panel. These blades are well described in Oliver Pinchot's article of 2002 in "Arms Collecting" (Vo. 40, #1, February). As Elgood has noted these blades along with Caucasian blades entered the Arabian sphere, as well as their being found in India and other spheres receiving such trade blades. I have a Bedouin sabre with this same blade form, but much shallower curve. That is what is so unusual and more attractive on this particular example is the more parabolic blade than usually seen with these Persian trade blades. With Ottoman kilij ofcourse, the deep parabolic blade has the slit opening in the throat of the scabbard to allow passage of the blade exiting the scabbard. It is most unusual to see this on the reverse carry which is a Caucasian affinity for the draw cut in sort of 'quick draw' style. While a bit of an anomaly, it is fantastic! I have actually never seen a shamshir with one of these blades, at least per se'. It seems most I have seen are in various local hilt forms as noted with use of these trade blades.

26th September 2019, 08:23 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	I tend to agree with Ariel. This is an original Persian shamshir converted into a Shashka. The scabbard also appears to be the original one, modified for the new purpose. But, this is my speculation...