Brittish Royal Navy pattern 1827 maker?!

mariusgmioc · 19th August 2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Have a look at mine HERE

Before 1929 blades they were wider fighting blades that became smaller after, and are smaller still now. the 1846 ones were an eight inch narrower than the 1827 version (as is mine, the post 1929 one being quite a bit narrower still. about a half inch less if I recall.)The reference I have mentioned lists the width details, mine is packed away & can't get to it at the moment.

Thank you very much for the detailed comments!

The link to your sword is very useful as I was strugling to find info on how to fit the knot.
Regarding the rayskin, it is genuine but it has seen little wear. The blade is also quite narrow so I assume it is a 20th century "parade" version.

Yet, I believe it is not a reproduction because it clearly shows signs of age and the edge is reasonably sharp.

kronckew · 19th August 2019, 08:53 PM

You are welcome. Sadly, military swords are almost entirely made for parade and display now, and quality suffers, as long as it looks OK from a number of yards away, it's ok.

The USA actually banned naval swords for officers and cutlass for the enlisted in WW2 'to save metal' - after overwhelming objection, officers an later enlisted were again allowed to wear swords/cutlass, and later enlisted were even doing cutlass drill on aircraft carriers in digicam on yootoob recently!

Yes, the sword knot is very confusing, not very strong at that inner loop join, I'd expect it to go flying if you actually tried using it as a wrist restraint. Disconnecting it before a battle andde using the other part insted thru the hole near the pommel would work tho. It's how they did it pre 1829.

The Infantry uses an even more useless knot wrap, and someone actually makes a permanently made & sewn/glued neatly up one to fasten like a mat on the front. They don't even use the proper slot The Cavalry and Artillery fasten it in a more useful fashion actually using the pommel slot to fasten it to the sword.

Will M · 20th August 2019, 01:19 AM

The sword appears authentic, the grip ray skin covering replaced at some point and the back strap/pommel a replacement, a poor casting most likely from a copy of this pattern of sword. The guard at the pommel does not fit properly because of the replacement back strap and it does not cover the upper edges of the skin. The ray skin looks authentic, plastic grips typically have a mould line running the length of the grip. Why the back strap is replaced is anyones guess, possibly damaged or lost while recovering the grip? The guard with crown and anchor is well done.

bvieira · 22nd August 2019, 12:44 PM

Hello,

I have some 1827 navy swords in my collection, high quality replicas are available and they even have maker marks, so even a maker mark in this swords doesn't mean it's genuine.

The Guard it's Original.

Everything else seems modern, the lion piece is obvious modern, the grip is modern and yes you can buy a replica with rayskin grip they are available everywhere, the blade was purposely scratched to give a more "used" look.

One of the worst parts of the modern replicas is the guard, their coat of arms are not 100% similar to the original ones (it's a small and detailed part), so i think somebody replace that part in this in mind.

But attention this is only my humble opinion.

Regards,

BV

19th August 2019, 08:53 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,286	You are welcome. Sadly, military swords are almost entirely made for parade and display now, and quality suffers, as long as it looks OK from a number of yards away, it's ok. The USA actually banned naval swords for officers and cutlass for the enlisted in WW2 'to save metal' - after overwhelming objection, officers an later enlisted were again allowed to wear swords/cutlass, and later enlisted were even doing cutlass drill on aircraft carriers in digicam on yootoob recently! Yes, the sword knot is very confusing, not very strong at that inner loop join, I'd expect it to go flying if you actually tried using it as a wrist restraint. Disconnecting it before a battle andde using the other part insted thru the hole near the pommel would work tho. It's how they did it pre 1829. The Infantry uses an even more useless knot wrap, and someone actually makes a permanently made & sewn/glued neatly up one to fasten like a mat on the front. They don't even use the proper slot The Cavalry and Artillery fasten it in a more useful fashion actually using the pommel slot to fasten it to the sword. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 19th August 2019 at 09:06 PM.

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20th August 2019, 01:19 AM	#3
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 431	The sword appears authentic, the grip ray skin covering replaced at some point and the back strap/pommel a replacement, a poor casting most likely from a copy of this pattern of sword. The guard at the pommel does not fit properly because of the replacement back strap and it does not cover the upper edges of the skin. The ray skin looks authentic, plastic grips typically have a mould line running the length of the grip. Why the back strap is replaced is anyones guess, possibly damaged or lost while recovering the grip? The guard with crown and anchor is well done.

22nd August 2019, 12:44 PM	#4
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Hello, I have some 1827 navy swords in my collection, high quality replicas are available and they even have maker marks, so even a maker mark in this swords doesn't mean it's genuine. The Guard it's Original. Everything else seems modern, the lion piece is obvious modern, the grip is modern and yes you can buy a replica with rayskin grip they are available everywhere, the blade was purposely scratched to give a more "used" look. One of the worst parts of the modern replicas is the guard, their coat of arms are not 100% similar to the original ones (it's a small and detailed part), so i think somebody replace that part in this in mind. But attention this is only my humble opinion. Regards, BV