The Beginning:- A Question

[rasjid]

My personal opinion is the Pesi, beginning of the blade. Means when its finish, or done as a Keris.

If during the making, maybe different? The mpu start making from the base area, gandik etc. Just above gonjo. Even when making the sogokan dan blumbangan, they started from the bottom area.


Rasjid

[A. G. Maisey]

OK, pesi?

Why not?

Its more or less in the same general area, the big end, so to speak, so that's two votes for the big end of the keris.

[Bob A]

Taking the blade as a whole, one way of approaching the question is to consider that the surface of the blade, in its entirety, is the beginning.

That's the part that interacts with the rest of the universe, if you will, and separates the keris from everything else; the interface between the object and its surroundings, the essence of its reality.

[David]

I'm not sure what i really think about this, but when i first read the question the first thing that popped into my head is that the blade begins where i come in contact with it since the keris is then an extension of the self. So i am inclined to say the pejetan/blumbangan area.

[drdavid]

Keeping in mind the lingam then the beginning/base should be where the pesi joins the blade. This might not include the gonjo which could be seen as an external addition to the lingam. The pesi itself could be seen as an internal attachment feature rather than part of the lingam. Shavism might dispute this interpretation of the lingam symbolism

[drdavid]

You might also ask who does the keris truly belong to ie the giver (wielder/lingam holder) or the receiver (victim/yoni), if it is the giver the beginning (point of first contact) is the gonjo or blumbangan, if it is the receiver then the point of first contact is the tip
DrD

[A. G. Maisey]

In some cases Dr. David, that keris might belong to entire family, or even an entire community.

Your first idea was very nice. At school I was taught never to use words like "good", "bad", "nice" without pausing to think if there is a better word that could be used instead. I went to a pretty old fashioned school. So I did think before using "nice", and this is indeed a very correct word in this instance.

[A. G. Maisey]

OK David, another vote for the Big End.

Bob, I like your idea, in fact I like it quite a lot, it seems to me to be an interpretation of the concept that nothing exists unless it is seen, that is, that everything only comes into existence at the point where it can be seen to exist, thus if it does not exist it has no beginning, and if no beginning, it also has no end.

You're not a cupboard philosopher are you Bob? This sounds exactly like like the sort of conversations I have with some of my more academic mates.

Its a great answer, but I was thinking in very simple terms, as I said when I asked the question, I'm just looking for opinions, and I'm not being technical.What I would like to achieve, if possible is a group opinion that is weighted more one way than the other,whichever way that might be.

So Bob, if you were to take off your philosopher's hat, and just take a simple layman's position, where do you think this object that we know as a keris might begin?

There it is, its laying on the table, we walk past, we notice it, where does it start?

[kai]

Hello Alan,

2 more votes? I can offer 4 to 5...


I do like Bob’s suggestion a lot. However, playing advocatus diaboli, I’d rather opt for the core of the blade than the surface since the latter is bound to change from erosion, cleaning and any restoration attempts while the essence is bound to persist.

If not restricted to any material part of the keris, I go for the makers mind though.

I was thinking in very simple terms, as I said when I asked the question, I'm just looking for opinions, and I'm not being technical.What I would like to achieve, if possible is a group opinion that is weighted more one way than the other,whichever way that might be.

So Bob, if you were to take off your philosopher's hat, and just take a simple layman's position, where do you think this object that we know as a keris might begin?

Where does a Naga begin? Where does a knife begin? Where does a human begin? If pressed to decide for a part of the body of the latter, most highly educated folks nowadays would probably opt for the head while the “heart” will likely be the response of really wise individuals.

If pressed for any anatomical answer, this question pretty much is a non-sequitur: A beginning implies a temporal connotation (like an historical origin, a birth or creator’s act, a start for reading, etc.). I’m sure Alan is getting at something - however, if the question is merely trying to narrow down on a particular part of any keris, I’d posit that the question certainly wasn’t simple and, especially, not phrased well enough...

Also perceived (main) function of the keris will influence which part may get selected. My idiosyncratic anatomical choice might be the base of the blade, especially both sogokan, if present. Or the jenggot and greneng for reading the blade - this opens another can of worms though!

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

My idiosyncratic anatomical choice might be the base of the blade, especially both sorsoran, if present.

Can we assume you meant to say sogokan, since the sorsoran MUST be present (as it actually is the whole of the base of the blade) and there can only be one, while sogokan may be present and there could very well be two if it is (though sometimes only one).