A katar is a katar till......

Mercenary · 9th June 2019, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Nihl, ....
However I disagree with your use of the word 'silly' in describing any reference by Robert Elgood.

This was said only about the collage itself, not related to anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

To publish takes some pretty 'thick skin', but as I was once told by a very well known author, "...Jim, ignore the critics, most of them have never published anything , just write and as best as you can, tell the people what they need to know".

Well said. I will copy it if you allow.

Jim McDougall · 9th June 2019, 06:06 PM

Thank you guys,
Mercenary, my comment suggested that 'any' reference by Robert Elgood, should not be described (however it is deemed by the reader) openly as 'silly'. I am clearly no linguist, but if I must criticize, I try to do so respectfully.
Normally I would not have rebutted such a statement, and I did mean it respectfully, and hope my view is accepted in kind.

Of course you may copy my 'quote', which is not attributed to its true author and paraphrased by me...it has stayed with me with more years than I recall, but I will never forget being told this.

With this I hope my reaction to this element of otherwise well explained and discussed material is not taken the wrong way, but Robert Elgood is a highly respected author, and deserves rebuttal entered along side any critique publicly. I meant no negative impression toward anyone in doing so, so I hope my 'critique' is accepted accordingly.

Nihl · 10th June 2019, 03:05 AM

Ah! Jim! So sorry, indeed, as Mercenary said, the "silly" was only meant to describe the collage, not Elgood or his research/writing/books/what-have-you. I added it when, after making the collage, I realized that the effort was rather silly given that I could have just written down the definitions in my post and highlighted specific phrases there. I wasn't at all trying to insult Elgood, and certainly didn't mean to insult you. Super sorry!

On a different note, I was doing some reading in the old Egerton today (mainly because I got a copy out of my local library that is due at the end of the month), and I noticed a few peculiar things.

The most concrete-ish one is the term used to describe a late (as I understand it) form of katar - the Garsoe katar. I've asked Jens about this type previously (in private messages) and I know that he hasn't got a clue as to the origin of the "garsoe" part. Logically I suppose it was just the local name for the type, but what it actually means is of course the big mysterious part.

Even more curious is that at least twice I've found listings for five-bladed katars! They're described as functioning like regular scissor katars, only with two extra blades! Of course these would mostly only function as extra-special status pieces, but their existence in and of themselves is just, well, curious! I'm pretty sure I've only ever seen three blades on a katar, spring-loaded or otherwise.

Relevant pictures attached.

Back on the topic of leafs and blades and what not, I still hold my position on the pat(t)a leaf/sword name theory. Not intending to offend or provoke, but simply speaking unless a more solid explanation/theory can be given for why the two terms are or aren't related, I'm sticking with my position. It just kinda makes sense to me

Jim McDougall · 10th June 2019, 03:31 AM

Nihl, thank you for the explanation, I totally misunderstood. To extend that, I do not see your efforts here as silly either, in fact pretty well thought out. Interesting further detail on the multi bladed katars, and these, among many Indian weapons have pretty much intrigued and baffled us for more years than I can accurately say.
I think the Garsoe question is quite valid, and admit it has crossed my inquiring mind a number of times but never got too far with it. Now you have me wondering.

10th June 2019, 03:05 AM	#3
Nihl Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 90	Ah! Jim! So sorry, indeed, as Mercenary said, the "silly" was only meant to describe the collage, not Elgood or his research/writing/books/what-have-you. I added it when, after making the collage, I realized that the effort was rather silly given that I could have just written down the definitions in my post and highlighted specific phrases there. I wasn't at all trying to insult Elgood, and certainly didn't mean to insult you. Super sorry! On a different note, I was doing some reading in the old Egerton today (mainly because I got a copy out of my local library that is due at the end of the month), and I noticed a few peculiar things. The most concrete-ish one is the term used to describe a late (as I understand it) form of katar - the Garsoe katar. I've asked Jens about this type previously (in private messages) and I know that he hasn't got a clue as to the origin of the "garsoe" part. Logically I suppose it was just the local name for the type, but what it actually means is of course the big mysterious part. Even more curious is that at least twice I've found listings for five-bladed katars! They're described as functioning like regular scissor katars, only with two extra blades! Of course these would mostly only function as extra-special status pieces, but their existence in and of themselves is just, well, curious! I'm pretty sure I've only ever seen three blades on a katar, spring-loaded or otherwise. Relevant pictures attached. Back on the topic of leafs and blades and what not, I still hold my position on the pat(t)a leaf/sword name theory. Not intending to offend or provoke, but simply speaking unless a more solid explanation/theory can be given for why the two terms are or aren't related, I'm sticking with my position. It just kinda makes sense to me Attached Images Last edited by Nihl; 10th June 2019 at 03:07 AM. Reason: Changed a word

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9th June 2019, 06:06 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,587	Thank you guys, Mercenary, my comment suggested that 'any' reference by Robert Elgood, should not be described (however it is deemed by the reader) openly as 'silly'. I am clearly no linguist, but if I must criticize, I try to do so respectfully. Normally I would not have rebutted such a statement, and I did mean it respectfully, and hope my view is accepted in kind. Of course you may copy my 'quote', which is not attributed to its true author and paraphrased by me...it has stayed with me with more years than I recall, but I will never forget being told this. With this I hope my reaction to this element of otherwise well explained and discussed material is not taken the wrong way, but Robert Elgood is a highly respected author, and deserves rebuttal entered along side any critique publicly. I meant no negative impression toward anyone in doing so, so I hope my 'critique' is accepted accordingly.

10th June 2019, 03:31 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,587	Nihl, thank you for the explanation, I totally misunderstood. To extend that, I do not see your efforts here as silly either, in fact pretty well thought out. Interesting further detail on the multi bladed katars, and these, among many Indian weapons have pretty much intrigued and baffled us for more years than I can accurately say. I think the Garsoe question is quite valid, and admit it has crossed my inquiring mind a number of times but never got too far with it. Now you have me wondering.