1st Post and 1st Keris

David · 6th April 2019, 08:22 PM

Hi YS and welcome to the forum.
It's a bit difficult to full assess you keris from these photos. Firstly photos are not the best way to assess any keris and in hand a different opinion might be formed. But you have not provided a good over all photos shot from directly above so it is possible to make some mistakes regarding dhapur. But what you were told might well be correct.
As far as tangguh is concerned, the first thing to know is that it is an estimated that you keris fits into a specific style that was known to be in fashion in a particular time period, but tangguh should never be taken as an indication of actual age. Old styles are sometimes copied at later dates to to place a blade on a timeline based upon a determined tangguh can be problematic. Unfortunately many of the indicators for judging tangguh cannot be drawn from a photograph alone and the blade really needs to be held and examined in person for a better assessment. My own thoughts here is that this blade is not nearly as old as you have been lead to believe.
This seems like a nice blade and the pamor seems fairly well executed. If it were mine the one thing i would do is to swap out that old mendak that is missing its stones with a nice quality new one. This blade deserves that.

A. G. Maisey · 6th April 2019, 10:43 PM

A very nice keris YS.

Amangkurat covers the period from approximately death of Sultan Agung through to establishment of Kartosuro, so in very broad terms 1645 to 1680, and running forward in time, not back. However, as David has pointed out, although a keris may be stylistically of some particular tangguh (classification), that does not necessarily mean that it can with any certainty be attributed to the time period referenced by that tangguh. It is usually not possible to be too definite about tangguh when using photos to judge.

Dhapur might be able to be given as Jalak Dinding, but again from a photo quite difficult to be certain, particularly with an older blade.

In any case, this is a really superior keris for a "first keris", really nice.

Apart from the missing stones, this mendak looks pretty good, probably silver I'd guess. I would not replace it, but repair it. If you are in Indonesia this should be easy for you to arrange, if not, well, we'll go another way.

David · 7th April 2019, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Apart from the missing stones, this mendak looks pretty good, probably silver I'd guess. I would not replace it, but repair it. If you are in Indonesia this should be easy for you to arrange, if not, well, we'll go another way.

You make a good point Alan. The sliver looks in pretty good shape and this mendak would probably not be too difficult to repair.

A. G. Maisey · 7th April 2019, 01:35 AM

David, for the last few years it has been very, very difficult to obtain old mendak in Jawa. In fact, it has been difficult to obtain decent quality new mendak at reasonable prices, and granulated mendak seem to have disappeared altogether.

Probably 40 years ago Harjonegoro told me that there had only ever been one family in Central Jawa who were capable of doing acceptable granulation work, and that this family was now down to a father and one son, the father was elderly -- bear in mind, this was some time in the 1980's -- and there was some doubt that when he moved on the son would be able to continue work. Well it looks like the son did continue work -- or else the father moved on at a very advanced age -- because the supply of new, decent quality granulated mendak did continue for a good while. I wish I'd bought a few hundred when I could, because I have not been able to buy for years.

I'll be in Solo again shortly, and as usual I'll try to buy some decent mendak, again as usual, I expect not to be able to. High quality, silver, set with rose cut diamonds, or cubics, yes, I'll be able to buy those, but they make the total cost of a keris too expensive, so I'll pass. New, rubbish quality will also be available, but I will not waste money on those.

We need to retain and if possible, repair, the old ones.

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6th April 2019, 08:22 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Hi YS and welcome to the forum. It's a bit difficult to full assess you keris from these photos. Firstly photos are not the best way to assess any keris and in hand a different opinion might be formed. But you have not provided a good over all photos shot from directly above so it is possible to make some mistakes regarding dhapur. But what you were told might well be correct. As far as tangguh is concerned, the first thing to know is that it is an estimated that you keris fits into a specific style that was known to be in fashion in a particular time period, but tangguh should never be taken as an indication of actual age. Old styles are sometimes copied at later dates to to place a blade on a timeline based upon a determined tangguh can be problematic. Unfortunately many of the indicators for judging tangguh cannot be drawn from a photograph alone and the blade really needs to be held and examined in person for a better assessment. My own thoughts here is that this blade is not nearly as old as you have been lead to believe. This seems like a nice blade and the pamor seems fairly well executed. If it were mine the one thing i would do is to swap out that old mendak that is missing its stones with a nice quality new one. This blade deserves that.

6th April 2019, 10:43 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	A very nice keris YS. Amangkurat covers the period from approximately death of Sultan Agung through to establishment of Kartosuro, so in very broad terms 1645 to 1680, and running forward in time, not back. However, as David has pointed out, although a keris may be stylistically of some particular tangguh (classification), that does not necessarily mean that it can with any certainty be attributed to the time period referenced by that tangguh. It is usually not possible to be too definite about tangguh when using photos to judge. Dhapur might be able to be given as Jalak Dinding, but again from a photo quite difficult to be certain, particularly with an older blade. In any case, this is a really superior keris for a "first keris", really nice. Apart from the missing stones, this mendak looks pretty good, probably silver I'd guess. I would not replace it, but repair it. If you are in Indonesia this should be easy for you to arrange, if not, well, we'll go another way.

7th April 2019, 01:35 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	David, for the last few years it has been very, very difficult to obtain old mendak in Jawa. In fact, it has been difficult to obtain decent quality new mendak at reasonable prices, and granulated mendak seem to have disappeared altogether. Probably 40 years ago Harjonegoro told me that there had only ever been one family in Central Jawa who were capable of doing acceptable granulation work, and that this family was now down to a father and one son, the father was elderly -- bear in mind, this was some time in the 1980's -- and there was some doubt that when he moved on the son would be able to continue work. Well it looks like the son did continue work -- or else the father moved on at a very advanced age -- because the supply of new, decent quality granulated mendak did continue for a good while. I wish I'd bought a few hundred when I could, because I have not been able to buy for years. I'll be in Solo again shortly, and as usual I'll try to buy some decent mendak, again as usual, I expect not to be able to. High quality, silver, set with rose cut diamonds, or cubics, yes, I'll be able to buy those, but they make the total cost of a keris too expensive, so I'll pass. New, rubbish quality will also be available, but I will not waste money on those. We need to retain and if possible, repair, the old ones.