15thC Burmese Sword

B.I · 4th April 2006, 12:19 PM

i am pleased this is is of some use.

now, if any of you happen to be in the freer, with a camera, in the indian sculpture section.............

the description that accompanies these pieces are as follows -

the pious king dhammaceti (r.1472-92) of pegu in lower burma built a series of temples to honour the life of buddha. the most distinguished was the temple complex of shwegugyi, erected in 1476. it was decorated with an extensive series of large-scale glazed tiles, many of which illustrated the demonic warriors of mara's army, sent to disrupt the buddha's meditation immediately prior to his enlightenment.
this tile, with owl-headed figures bearing swords, is typical of this series.

Mark · 4th April 2006, 05:32 PM

My resources are very limited, since they are only what other people have decided to photograph. There are lots of daab seen in 18th-19C Thai temple paintings. Yours are the first of any kind that I have seen from Burma, but that likely just means I haven't read the right books.

The earliest dha depiction I have found is from Angkor Wat in Cambodia, but the date is disputed. Angkor Wat was built in the 12th C, but many of the carvings were done. At least one authority believes this freize was carved in the 14th C, by Siamese artists following 12th C style books. What is doubly is that it shows mak as well.

B.I · 4th April 2006, 05:38 PM

hi mark,
a fantastic image!!
if the temple (?) was built in the 12thC, there must be a known date when it ceased to be added to. was this long past the 14thC?

Mark · 4th April 2006, 07:47 PM

I will have to go back and re-read my book. The carvings were done in two periods, one in Suryavarman's time, and the other a couple generations later. I'll get back to you on that.

Titus Pullo · 16th April 2006, 04:42 PM

One of the greatest warriors that had ever lived were probably the Burmese! They whoop the British arses with superior fire power several times before they could gain a foothold in Burma, and even then they always gave the British a very hard time and make them regret trying to subdue Burma. They were thinking of leaving Burma even before the Japanese took over. They thought they were more easy picking...large number of British and Indian soldiers were dying, I believe. But the greatest fighters that every live are probably the invincible Siamese fighters because he fought for his freedom, the country, the people and the king. He knows no fear...he is as cold as ice, and fighting is only his second nature.

Mark · 17th April 2006, 02:55 PM

While I thoroughly appreciate the sentiment, Titus Pullo, this post wanders off the subject of the weapons themselves, and into the area of potential conflict. Please keep to the topic.

And anyone inclined to start even 'friendly' debate on the open forum -- please don't.

B.I · 17th April 2006, 06:06 PM

hi mark,
the warrior infantry at the front seem to be wearing a kind of armour cuirass, with a round plate at the front. the overall look is of a solid piece, as apposed to sewn onto fabric/leather (a common feature in mny cultures, inc ottoman and indian). is this the case? is there much info on early armour of this period?
also, a strange question, which i hope will not be taken the wrong way, but what religion were they? i definately dont want to steer this towards religion, but it has been summised that india never used body armour until the influence of islam, which i am not altogether convinced of. its an easy assumption, given the lack of 'factual' iconic evidence, with early hindu sculpture being leant too often towards mythology (and so mostly naked).

please answer quick in case i've sidetracked this into non-forum policy territory.

16th April 2006, 04:42 PM	#5
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	One of the greatest warriors that had ever lived were probably the Burmese! They whoop the British arses with superior fire power several times before they could gain a foothold in Burma, and even then they always gave the British a very hard time and make them regret trying to subdue Burma. They were thinking of leaving Burma even before the Japanese took over. They thought they were more easy picking...large number of British and Indian soldiers were dying, I believe. But the greatest fighters that every live are probably the invincible Siamese fighters because he fought for his freedom, the country, the people and the king. He knows no fear...he is as cold as ice, and fighting is only his second nature. Last edited by Titus Pullo; 16th April 2006 at 06:03 PM.

17th April 2006, 02:55 PM	#6
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	While I thoroughly appreciate the sentiment, Titus Pullo, this post wanders off the subject of the weapons themselves, and into the area of potential conflict. Please keep to the topic. And anyone inclined to start even 'friendly' debate on the open forum -- please don't. Last edited by Mark Bowditch; 18th April 2006 at 06:47 PM.

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4th April 2006, 12:19 PM	#1
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	i am pleased this is is of some use. now, if any of you happen to be in the freer, with a camera, in the indian sculpture section............. the description that accompanies these pieces are as follows - the pious king dhammaceti (r.1472-92) of pegu in lower burma built a series of temples to honour the life of buddha. the most distinguished was the temple complex of shwegugyi, erected in 1476. it was decorated with an extensive series of large-scale glazed tiles, many of which illustrated the demonic warriors of mara's army, sent to disrupt the buddha's meditation immediately prior to his enlightenment. this tile, with owl-headed figures bearing swords, is typical of this series.

4th April 2006, 05:32 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	My resources are very limited, since they are only what other people have decided to photograph. There are lots of daab seen in 18th-19C Thai temple paintings. Yours are the first of any kind that I have seen from Burma, but that likely just means I haven't read the right books. The earliest dha depiction I have found is from Angkor Wat in Cambodia, but the date is disputed. Angkor Wat was built in the 12th C, but many of the carvings were done. At least one authority believes this freize was carved in the 14th C, by Siamese artists following 12th C style books. What is doubly is that it shows mak as well.

4th April 2006, 05:38 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi mark, a fantastic image!! if the temple (?) was built in the 12thC, there must be a known date when it ceased to be added to. was this long past the 14thC?

4th April 2006, 07:47 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I will have to go back and re-read my book. The carvings were done in two periods, one in Suryavarman's time, and the other a couple generations later. I'll get back to you on that.

17th April 2006, 06:06 PM	#7
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi mark, the warrior infantry at the front seem to be wearing a kind of armour cuirass, with a round plate at the front. the overall look is of a solid piece, as apposed to sewn onto fabric/leather (a common feature in mny cultures, inc ottoman and indian). is this the case? is there much info on early armour of this period? also, a strange question, which i hope will not be taken the wrong way, but what religion were they? i definately dont want to steer this towards religion, but it has been summised that india never used body armour until the influence of islam, which i am not altogether convinced of. its an easy assumption, given the lack of 'factual' iconic evidence, with early hindu sculpture being leant too often towards mythology (and so mostly naked). please answer quick in case i've sidetracked this into non-forum policy territory.