Is this a tourist trap or a real deal?

A. G. Maisey · 10th July 2018, 12:52 AM

My comments on the dress are these:-

the wrongko is old, probably pre-WWII, the pendok is also old, definitely pre-WWII, it is made from mamas and is of a style that is exceptionally rare in post-WWII wrongkos, the pendok was not originally fitted to this gandar, the manner in which the wrongko + pendok has been presented is extremely amateurish, the imperfect fitting of pendok to gandar is totally unacceptable and makes this keris unable to be worn in polite society. Possibly the pendok may be able to be refitted in an acceptable way, but a far better solution would be to fit a pendok bunton. A cheaper fix would be to smooth and reduce the gandar and fit a velvet cover to the gandar, the colour for the velvet would need to match the kraton code.

I cannot see sufficient of the hilt to pass comment on the quality of workmanship. What I can see seems to indicate that craftsmanship is adequate, and compatible with the overall level of quality represented by the ensemble. The mendak appears to have some age and would probably test as silver.

The incorrect mating of hilt and wrongko I commented on in post #4.

My overall opinion is that it is a pretty decent keris, it needs a little bit of revision in presentation, but that is something extremely minor, and not really worthy of comment. What we can see here is the way keris are often bought once they appear on the market outside Jawa, or for that matter, even within Jawa when offered for sale by private people or non-specialist dealers. If it went cheap, whoever got it did well.

thomas hauschild · 10th July 2018, 05:56 PM

As a knifemaker I have worked with walrus ivory often in the past. So I‘m 100% sure that this is walrus. The prices for that kind of material are very high. It looks not very old but the prices for a piece of raw ivory of that size (with cites ) will be at around 300 $ or more. Not a material that somebody will use for a tourist trap
Just my opinion

Best Thomas

„Fresh“ and creamy, aged pieces

A. G. Maisey · 10th July 2018, 11:02 PM

Thomas, you have said:- "--- Just my opinion ---"

Not all opinions are equal:- there are informed opinions, and there are uninformed opinions; the informed opinion has value, it is the other opinion that is '"just an opinion".

By virtue of the fact that you are familiar with the material under discussion, your opinion in respect of this material must be regarded as an informed opinion.

Jean · 11th July 2018, 09:55 AM

Thank you Thomas for the interesting pics and I support your opinion, we have learned something new about the identification of walrus ivory which is often wrongly attributed

I wish I could have noticed this kris on Ebay!
Regards

10th July 2018, 05:56 PM	#2
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 149	As a knifemaker I have worked with walrus ivory often in the past. So I‘m 100% sure that this is walrus. The prices for that kind of material are very high. It looks not very old but the prices for a piece of raw ivory of that size (with cites ) will be at around 300 $ or more. Not a material that somebody will use for a tourist trap Just my opinion Best Thomas „Fresh“ and creamy, aged pieces Attached Images Last edited by thomas hauschild; 10th July 2018 at 06:16 PM.

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10th July 2018, 12:52 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,164	My comments on the dress are these:- the wrongko is old, probably pre-WWII, the pendok is also old, definitely pre-WWII, it is made from mamas and is of a style that is exceptionally rare in post-WWII wrongkos, the pendok was not originally fitted to this gandar, the manner in which the wrongko + pendok has been presented is extremely amateurish, the imperfect fitting of pendok to gandar is totally unacceptable and makes this keris unable to be worn in polite society. Possibly the pendok may be able to be refitted in an acceptable way, but a far better solution would be to fit a pendok bunton. A cheaper fix would be to smooth and reduce the gandar and fit a velvet cover to the gandar, the colour for the velvet would need to match the kraton code. I cannot see sufficient of the hilt to pass comment on the quality of workmanship. What I can see seems to indicate that craftsmanship is adequate, and compatible with the overall level of quality represented by the ensemble. The mendak appears to have some age and would probably test as silver. The incorrect mating of hilt and wrongko I commented on in post #4. My overall opinion is that it is a pretty decent keris, it needs a little bit of revision in presentation, but that is something extremely minor, and not really worthy of comment. What we can see here is the way keris are often bought once they appear on the market outside Jawa, or for that matter, even within Jawa when offered for sale by private people or non-specialist dealers. If it went cheap, whoever got it did well.

10th July 2018, 11:02 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,164	Thomas, you have said:- "--- Just my opinion ---" Not all opinions are equal:- there are informed opinions, and there are uninformed opinions; the informed opinion has value, it is the other opinion that is '"just an opinion". By virtue of the fact that you are familiar with the material under discussion, your opinion in respect of this material must be regarded as an informed opinion.

11th July 2018, 09:55 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Thomas for the interesting pics and I support your opinion, we have learned something new about the identification of walrus ivory which is often wrongly attributed I wish I could have noticed this kris on Ebay! Regards Last edited by Jean; 11th July 2018 at 12:56 PM.