The Cleaning of Blades

A. G. Maisey · 18th May 2018, 11:13 PM

Yes David, I agree, and the old threads cover methods other than acid cleaning.

The major reason I started this new thread is because of two things that Kai mentioned:-

1) that a mild acetic acid can damage steel

2) that there is no need to kill acetic acid residue with bi-carb

Perhaps Kai can give us technical explanations for this, because I have never experienced damage to any blade that I have ever cleaned with vinegar, even though on a couple of occasions I've forgotten I had one soaking, and it got the benefit of 2 or 3 weeks in a vinegar bath.

Similarly, I have seen ferric material react after cleaning with vinegar when I did not use the bicarb slurry before the final rinse. I do not always use bicarb, it is mostly when my experience tells me that I should, or on a return clean when a blade has reacted because I did not use bi-carb the first time.

So now I am waiting for Kai to share his knowledge.

I have only learnt from experience, I have no technical knowledge at all about the things that I use.

But cleaning a blade for the first time might seem like a big thing to somebody new to it, so I believe it is important that those people should get as much guidance as possible.

Rick · 19th May 2018, 12:46 AM

I have a (new to me) tombak that I have used Picreator Metal De-corroder on to remove the rust which was pretty substantial.
The result shows a noticeable difference in color between the core and the pamor.
I intend to try a strong, hot coffee solution (in lieu of warangan) to try to make that contrast even more apparent.

I'm hesitant to post pictures here as it is not a keris.

kai · 19th May 2018, 01:33 AM

Hello Rick,

Quote:

I'm hesitant to post pictures here as it is not a keris.

Since we're discussing methods in general, I don't think we need to restrict ourselves to keris only. One might even prefer to transfer this thread to the main forum...

Regards,
Kai

David · 19th May 2018, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm hesitant to post pictures here as it is not a keris.

Well Rick, when we started this forum we made a choice to discuss just keris, not all tosan aji. We talked about including tombak at the time and decided not to and i believe that was probably the best decision. That said, however, i believe that in the context of this discussion a few photographs of the cleaning you did on your tombak would not be out of place in this context. It's not the same as presenting the tombak for deeper discussion. I say go for it.

Rick · 19th May 2018, 02:32 PM

When I'm finally finished with the rust treatment I'll post the blade before I try an etch with super strong coffee. Right now the blade is in a heavy coating of De-corroder wrapped in plastic wrap to keep it from drying out too quickly.

Something occurred to me about the subject under discussion: there are many variations in quality of steel and pamor material; would this difference not interfere with a consistent result in whatever rust treatment is involved?

/5/20

Well, here are pictures of this blade after treatment with Metal De-corroder (a Renaissance product) a hot rinse and before any etching has been attempted.

It was quite crusty and the color difference was not aparrent; no before pics, sorry.

Rick · 20th May 2018, 04:39 PM

Bump

jagabuwana · 24th May 2018, 11:50 AM

Would be interesting to see your post-etching results, Rick.

Rick · 24th May 2018, 02:01 PM

Yes it would; if I had anything that could produce a warangan type of etch.

I'm reasonably happy just to see a contrast between the metals; the EPA doesn't want me to possess arsenic trioxide.

David · 19th May 2018, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes David, I agree, and the old threads cover methods other than acid cleaning.

The major reason I started this new thread is because of two things that Kai mentioned:-

1) that a mild acetic acid can damage steel

2) that there is no need to kill acetic acid residue with bi-carb

Thanks Alan. Yes, i understood your intentions for open this thread. My note was not directed specifically at you, or anyone else for that matter. It was simply a reminder to everyone that there is no need to spend time and space covering aspects of cleaning that we have already discussed in much detail. New information is always welcome.

19th May 2018, 02:32 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,441	When I'm finally finished with the rust treatment I'll post the blade before I try an etch with super strong coffee. Right now the blade is in a heavy coating of De-corroder wrapped in plastic wrap to keep it from drying out too quickly. Something occurred to me about the subject under discussion: there are many variations in quality of steel and pamor material; would this difference not interfere with a consistent result in whatever rust treatment is involved? /5/20 Well, here are pictures of this blade after treatment with Metal De-corroder (a Renaissance product) a hot rinse and before any etching has been attempted. It was quite crusty and the color difference was not aparrent; no before pics, sorry. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 20th May 2018 at 04:37 PM.

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18th May 2018, 11:13 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,255	Yes David, I agree, and the old threads cover methods other than acid cleaning. The major reason I started this new thread is because of two things that Kai mentioned:- 1) that a mild acetic acid can damage steel 2) that there is no need to kill acetic acid residue with bi-carb Perhaps Kai can give us technical explanations for this, because I have never experienced damage to any blade that I have ever cleaned with vinegar, even though on a couple of occasions I've forgotten I had one soaking, and it got the benefit of 2 or 3 weeks in a vinegar bath. Similarly, I have seen ferric material react after cleaning with vinegar when I did not use the bicarb slurry before the final rinse. I do not always use bicarb, it is mostly when my experience tells me that I should, or on a return clean when a blade has reacted because I did not use bi-carb the first time. So now I am waiting for Kai to share his knowledge. I have only learnt from experience, I have no technical knowledge at all about the things that I use. But cleaning a blade for the first time might seem like a big thing to somebody new to it, so I believe it is important that those people should get as much guidance as possible.

19th May 2018, 12:46 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,441	I have a (new to me) tombak that I have used Picreator Metal De-corroder on to remove the rust which was pretty substantial. The result shows a noticeable difference in color between the core and the pamor. I intend to try a strong, hot coffee solution (in lieu of warangan) to try to make that contrast even more apparent. I'm hesitant to post pictures here as it is not a keris.

20th May 2018, 04:39 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,441	Bump

24th May 2018, 11:50 AM	#7
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 295	Would be interesting to see your post-etching results, Rick.

24th May 2018, 02:01 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,441	Yes it would; if I had anything that could produce a warangan type of etch. I'm reasonably happy just to see a contrast between the metals; the EPA doesn't want me to possess arsenic trioxide.