Kinjal with Damacus / watered blade

Oliver Pinchot · 6th May 2018, 05:12 PM

This is an Ottoman dagger called a kama dating to the mid-19th c.
The pattern welding is authentic, it's very well forged,
ground and finished. The etching is deep and crisp as well.
A nice example.

Mel H · 6th May 2018, 06:47 PM

Thanks for the input, I was intrigued by the demarcation and the amount of skill required to keep the line that way during the forging, I have no doubt that it is pattern welded as opposed to false patterning. It's nice to have a name (Kama) that ties it down to a particular style or region.
Mel.

Lee · 7th May 2018, 12:31 PM

That is indeed a gorgeous example and outstanding work; the pattern welding will only be in the center panel, it looks like there are four bands and I do like the contrast and clarity of that feature in your example. The appearance of perfect demarcation has been enhanced by judicious etching and staining within the fuller area. Nice, really nice. I have had an example for many years also showing great smithing skill and I have extracted an image of this from a document I prepared a few years ago:

ALEX · 7th May 2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel H

Thanks for the input, I was intrigued by the demarcation and the amount of skill required to keep the line that way during the forging, I have no doubt that it is pattern welded as opposed to false patterning. It's nice to have a name (Kama) that ties it down to a particular style or region.
Mel.

Mel, I agree with all above. The core is mechanical/pattern welded with several (4?) rows of twisted wire in a pattern known as "Turkish Ribbon". The "twists" repeat in a sequential order which indicate the technique. It is very fine, and not a false/etched.

Richard Furrer · 8th May 2018, 04:39 PM

It is common to polish the edges and etch the center. I have seen this on many pieces. The fact that you can clearly see the patterned core extending into the edges and into the tip is not something which would have been very visible (in some light yes) when it was new.
Ric

mariusgmioc · 8th May 2018, 05:01 PM

Hello,

Am I correct to assume that "watered" steel refers generally to wootz, while for pattern welded we should use the term "pattern/paterning?"

ALEX · 9th May 2018, 01:18 PM

Wootz and mechanical are both references to patterns. The same can be applied to watered/watering, i.e. general terms for patterned steel (although some use it to describe wootz). Better to use crucible vs. mechanical to distinguish the two.

Mel H · 9th May 2018, 10:11 PM

Lee, thank you for your very interesting document link, I now have a print out and will enjoy taking it in over the next couple of hours.
Mel.

mariusgmioc · 10th May 2018, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Wootz and mechanical are both references to patterns. The same can be applied to watered/watering, i.e. general terms for patterned steel (although some use it to describe wootz). Better to use crucible vs. mechanical to distinguish the two.

Thank you for the explanation!

7th May 2018, 12:31 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	That is indeed a gorgeous example and outstanding work; the pattern welding will only be in the center panel, it looks like there are four bands and I do like the contrast and clarity of that feature in your example. The appearance of perfect demarcation has been enhanced by judicious etching and staining within the fuller area. Nice, really nice. I have had an example for many years also showing great smithing skill and I have extracted an image of this from a document I prepared a few years ago: Attached Images

8th May 2018, 05:01 PM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Watered vs. Pattern Hello, Am I correct to assume that "watered" steel refers generally to wootz, while for pattern welded we should use the term "pattern/paterning?"

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6th May 2018, 05:12 PM	#1
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 465	This is an Ottoman dagger called a kama dating to the mid-19th c. The pattern welding is authentic, it's very well forged, ground and finished. The etching is deep and crisp as well. A nice example.

6th May 2018, 06:47 PM	#2
Mel H Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: North East England. Posts: 107	Thanks for the input, I was intrigued by the demarcation and the amount of skill required to keep the line that way during the forging, I have no doubt that it is pattern welded as opposed to false patterning. It's nice to have a name (Kama) that ties it down to a particular style or region. Mel.

8th May 2018, 04:39 PM	#5
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	It is common to polish the edges and etch the center. I have seen this on many pieces. The fact that you can clearly see the patterned core extending into the edges and into the tip is not something which would have been very visible (in some light yes) when it was new. Ric

9th May 2018, 01:18 PM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Wootz and mechanical are both references to patterns. The same can be applied to watered/watering, i.e. general terms for patterned steel (although some use it to describe wootz). Better to use crucible vs. mechanical to distinguish the two.

9th May 2018, 10:11 PM	#8
Mel H Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: North East England. Posts: 107	Lee, thank you for your very interesting document link, I now have a print out and will enjoy taking it in over the next couple of hours. Mel.