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			Third
		 
		
		
		
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			And final.
		 
		
		
		
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			 Keris forum moderator 
			
			
			
				
			
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			Thanks for posting Bjorn. Even if they are not all particularly old they are nonetheless interesting additions to our gallery.   
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 
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			I'm not sure of the geographical origin of this Javanese hilt  (East Java?)  
		
		
		
			  But I'm pretty sure it represents Bhima: position of the hands, the belt with its buckle, the bun, etc. ... it's very close to Balinese hilts representing this deity.  | 
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			Hello Séverin, 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	Another very finely carved hilt! If you ever decide to let it go... ![]() IMVHO this is a somewhat later example based on the early type representing a demonic being (I believe I also can make out fangs with your example) apparently belonging to the Kastrya echelon. Based on carving style and wear/patina, I'd guess your's is really old and certainly antique though. The additional wooden "bead" below the hilt is weird. I've seen a few of these but no idea where this idea came from? This keris seems worth a dedicated discussion - maybe you could post the blade and its fittings in a separate thread? Quote: 
	
 Regards, Kai  | 
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			Yes Kai, affixing names of specific Balinese deities or folk figures can be pretty difficult sometimes. Moreover, sometimes the people in Bali whom one would think might have a good idea of what specific personage is represented by a totogan, will have no idea at all, or else, be demonstrably wrong. 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			But sometimes an attribution will be included in the carving that might be sufficient clue to venture a guess on. With Bhima it is usually an overlong thumb nail and/or rather massive genitals. In respect of hairstyle, I'd be looking for a crab-claw hairstyle on a Bhima representation. The simple knot of hair is normally associated with a low level personage, maybe a punakawan, or servant, or common man. Edit I've referred to "hair style" above. Ideally, this crab claw (supit urang) would have been a hair style, but in reality it was probably mostly a head-dress, its symbolism is that it identifies a hero. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 20th October 2019 at 03:01 PM.  | 
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		#7 | 
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			Hello Alan, 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	Thanks for your thoughts! Regarding the genitals we can only guess, this type seems to always maintain decorum... ![]() It is also always carved with 4 fingers with apparently the thumb hidden from view. (If it were meant to represent Bhima, I'd expect the thumb(nail) not to be hidden from view though.) While the bun may appear simple, this type always comes with quite elaborate hairdo with very neatly arranged hair, several successive rows of curls in the bun and often additional curls below - pretty much nessitating a hairdresser (not a DIY thing, I believe). This type also always come with lots of status wear: A huge central diadem which is kinda mirrored at the back of the head, too. Around the ears there seems to be a sumping ron (slightly smaller than usual?) and possibly an eloborate ring dangling down from the earlobe (if not part of the sumping ron). Then we have a massive and heavily decorated breast plate followed by a very broad belt with central plate/buckle and, again, heavy decor. The upper arms, wrists and ankles are also carrying elaborate bangles. Definitely a member of the upper echelons and not a common man is represented here! Regards, Kai  | 
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