New Moro Kris Sheaths and handles for Comments

[alexish]

I hereby enclose bigger images of the kris sheath.

[Battara]

To me the blade looks older (late 19th - early 20th century?) than everything else.

[Sajen]

Agree with Jose, old/antique blade with recent fittings.

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

To me the blade looks older (late 19th - early 20th century?) than everything else.

Well yes, i believe Alexish made that clear in post #38. This is new dress that he commissioned for this old blade 10 years ago. He does not say where or from whom he commissioned it from. If an Indonesian craftsman made this then the question might be does it look like authentic Moro work? Are the motifs correct for what we know as okir or does it miss the mark as so much dress crafted outside the original culture of redressed blades do?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Well yes, i believe Alexish made that clear in post #38. This is new dress that he commissioned for this old blade 10 years ago. He does not say where or from whom he commissioned it from. If an Indonesian craftsman made this then the question might be does it look like authentic Moro work? Are the motifs correct for what we know as okir or does it miss the mark as so much dress crafted outside the original culture of redressed blades do?

Hello David,

yes, you are correct! Look like Adnis pictures! The fittings don't look like old Moro work, sorry.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

I agree with Detlef.

These interpretations of Moro work shown by alexish are not typical of recent Moro items coming from Mindanao, and are clearly distinct from more traditional Moro styles.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by David

... If an Indonesian craftsman made this then the question might be does it look like authentic Moro work? Are the motifs correct for what we know as okir or does it miss the mark as so much dress crafted outside the original culture of redressed blades do?

David,

In response to your questions, I think we can say:

NO--this does not look like authentic Moro work, and
NO--the motifs are mostly not correct for Moro okir, and
YES--it largely misses the mark of what a redressed blade would look like in the original culture.

My main concerns are that these pieces tend to be overly embellished and the proportions of various features are different, thereby losing touch with much of the form and simplicity of the original designs and missing the mark. These interpretations are obviously based on the originals that alexish has shown, but they are artists' interpretations from outside the culture and suffer accordingly. Again, these are well carved and one can admire the skill in their crafting.

Ian.

Ian

[David]

Originally Posted by Ian

David,

In response to your questions, I think we can say:

NO--this does not look like authentic Moro work, and
NO--the motifs are mostly not correct for Moro okir, and
YES--it largely misses the mark of what a redressed blade would look like in the original culture.

My main concerns are that these pieces tend to be overly embellished and the proportions of various features are different, thereby losing touch with much of the form and simplicity of the original designs and missing the mark. These interpretations are obviously based on the originals that alexish has shown, but they are artists' interpretations from outside the culture and suffer accordingly. Again, these are well carved and one can admire the skill in their crafting.

Ian.

Ian

Thanks Ian, but these were not MY questions, they were Alexish's. I was merely clarifying those questions due to both José's and Detlef's response to the posting of the larger photos.

[kai]

Detlef has identified the facilitator - it certainly doesn't look like it ever was supposed to represent Moro style. However, it's also not a Malay style (nor motifs) that I recognize. Not knowing who was the actual artisan doing these fittings, I'd guess that this is more of a modern art approach.

While I do love the Sulu scabbard type with flared tip, this example's tip leaves something to be desired IMHO...

Regards,
Kai

[mross]

Here is a link to what I think is a good modern Moro restoration;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11599

And there was discussion on what should have been, but IMHO it's good.