Planning to make a wrongko

rasdan · 11th May 2017, 05:06 PM

Thank you Gustav and Alan. If the statue in the National Museum is also 15th century we cannot possibly be looking at buda keris on that statue. Another thing that interests me with that one is the selut that it used. Very similar with the ones we see in old bugis keris style.

It is very interesting to see that ladrangan style is already around in Candi Sukuh (15th century I think). I always have thought that ladrangan is a more recent style.

A. G. Maisey · 12th May 2017, 02:47 AM

Rasdan, I don't think that we can say whether or not the keris in the scabbard on that statue is Buda, however, the fact that it is a 15th century statue does not automatically rule out the form of the keris.

Yes, we refer to keris that we believe came from Pre-Islamic Jawa as "Keris Buda", but that does not mean that Keris Buda were never made and used in later eras. Even Mpu Pauzan made a few keris Buda, and lesser current era makers have also produced them. Similarly, Islam did not just automatically dominate Jawa after the collapse of Majapahit, it took a long time to get almost total domination. Even today, that domination is not complete, the people of the Tengger still cling to the old Pre-Islamic traditions, in fact in some ways the Tengger traditions reflect very early indigenous beliefs.We also have the Badui of Sunda.

Then there is the artistic dictate that the carver may have used an earlier style to reflect what the rest of the subject depicted.

The keris in the scabbard might be a KB, or might not, but we cannot even guess what the carver had in mind, based upon what we can see

rasdan · 12th May 2017, 11:43 AM

Thanks Alan, I just remembered that you had mentioned somewhere about this. Keris buda that were made after the pre-Islamic times and still produced at current time.

Unlike other talismanic items that are still made to be talismanic, I think current keris Buda were made for the collectors market with just money in mind. For what reason in your opinion that older keris buda (between early Islamic and before keris collectors exists - which is another interesting topic) were made for?

A. G. Maisey · 12th May 2017, 12:58 PM

Not really for the collector market Rasdan, at least, not in the way that we now think about collecting. People at the top of the tree in Solo from the 1970's through to the not so distant past held the opinion that keris which were made in the style of earlier periods were made as a token of respect to the makers of the past. Thus, a keris of say, Mojo style could be made during the Pajang era, not as an attempt to create a forgery, but as a token of respect to a previous maker.

Pauzan made a number of keris in styles from past eras --- KB's, betoks, Matarams --- it was never an attempt to deceive, it was always homage to past, and also to demonstrate his skill. I even made one keris in a past style, and using material that would place it as a past style. I did this just to show that I could do it.

At the present time some of the most artistic keris of the current era have been made in the KB style.

In respect of the idea "before collectors exist", I just don't know when that might be where keris are concerned. Bear in mind, Javanese noble men had very limited ways in which to store wealth. One of the acceptable ways was to store wealth in keris, this is probably the foundation stone of the Solonese tangguh system. Keris collecting and collectors have been around for a very long time.

Johan van Zyl · 12th May 2017, 01:06 PM

If I may interrupt Rasdan and Alan's very interesting discussion for a moment, let me show the latest pic of my nearly completed project. What comes to my mind is the following: WYSIWYG = What you see is what you get. It pertains to me, as I cannot at this stage effect any more big changes, and it pertains to the longsuffering forum members who have accompanied me on this "trip", as this wrongko might be disappointing and did not rise to the high expectations you might have had. But if I may say boldly, the wrongko actually looks better than in this poor photograph.

The four pins plus Alan's suggestion has made this epoxied joint very strong and I had no fear of it breaking as I sanded. What now needs to be done, is the application of the varnish. That is to say, if it is your suggestion that I varnish this wood. I recall reading that a Bugis wrongko should be stained red and then varnished (if I recall correctly). If you have more or other advice for me, please let it come. I await your kind final inputs. (Some of the pictures of wrongkos I saw seemed to be oiled or waxed.)

Rick · 12th May 2017, 03:13 PM

I think shellac will give you a nicer finish.

kai · 12th May 2017, 05:49 PM

Hello Johan,

That doesn't look bad at all! Certainly not a perfect copy and with some shortcomings for traditionally minded connoisseurs. More than adequate clothes for your keris though - you can certainly be proud having done this with a tough wood which seems to have quite nice figuring, too!

Traditional finish for keris is shellac (no multiple layers needed); make sure to fill the pores with wood dust during the final polishing steps!

The color is probably close to Kemuning limau (yellow kemuning wood); you could leave it as is if you prefer this color.

You could also utilize some spare bits of the same wood for testing whether using boiled linseed oil first and shellac later will make both woods looking even better.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 13th May 2017, 12:16 AM

That's actually not too bad Johan, you've got the overall form pretty good, it looks like what it is intended to be. We must never forget that even in the societies where these things came from, not everybody was a master.

Your efforts to date are good Johan.

I will offer the following:-

1) you can only have two sorts of lines:- a straight line or a part of a circle; lumps, bumps, wandering lines are definitely not permitted, and that applies to any sort of work of this nature.

2) the heavy ridge that interrupts smooth transition from the face to the top of the piece must go, the face of the wrongko from its lower edge to the top where the surface turns inward should be a smooth curve, in other words a part of a circle --- a very large circle, but a circle just the same. This "part of a circle " idea has been quoted as a dictum for as long as people have made things, but what nobody ever seems to point out is that it is really "parts of circles", for example, in a long curve you can get variation in the progression of the curve, each part of the curve can reflect a different radius, but even so, that curve must be a smooth progression, so that you cannot see the change in radius, the effect is that if the curve is extended it becomes ovoid, rather than circle. You point this out to a purist and you get told that an ovoid reflects a changing circle, or over-lapping circles. Anyway, however you look at it, curves must be smooth.

3) sanding could be taken to about 600 - 800 grit, and then the grain must be raised with steam and polished off with 0000 steel wool, until it does not raise anymore; you want a perfectly polished surface before you apply the finish. A steam iron is easy to use for the steam.

4) the traditional finish for a Javanese wrongko is french polish, usually the Javanese m'ranggis will only use a maximum of 5 or 6 coats, and then rub back with rotten stone, and finish with a particular type of rough leaf, the reason for this is that they believe too many coats detracts from the beauty of the wood grain. This might be true, because of the way they do the job, but a true french polish can enhance wood grain up to, and even beyond, a piano finish of say 16 and upwards coats. You need to apply a french polish in a figure of eight pattern.

5) I do not know what the traditional finish on Bugis and Peninsula wrongkos was. It looks like it might have been shellac, but in my experience old Bugis style wrongkos exhibit a surface that looks very like well patinated polished wood. Newer ones seem to have a pretty crude sort of varnish that sometimes lifts and leaves bare patches:- poor quality material, inexpertly applied and very ugly. OK for a row boat or outside timber, but not for cabinet work or an artisan product, and a wrongko is an artisan product.

6) if you do not want to go the full "traditional" route, Danish Oil or similar, applied with a rubber (fine cotton/linen pad filled with cotton wool) and run up to maybe five coats, polished off between coats with 00 steel wool, and final coat lightly polished off with 0000 steel wool, then waxed, will give a very, very close imitation of a nicely aged traditional finish.

A good finish to any wood is in the preparation Johan. I avoid using fillers if at all possible and use the finish material as the filler, it’s a slower process, but in my opinion gives a much superior job. Do not skimp on the preparation.

12th May 2017, 01:06 PM	#5
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	If I may interrupt Rasdan and Alan's very interesting discussion for a moment, let me show the latest pic of my nearly completed project. What comes to my mind is the following: WYSIWYG = What you see is what you get. It pertains to me, as I cannot at this stage effect any more big changes, and it pertains to the longsuffering forum members who have accompanied me on this "trip", as this wrongko might be disappointing and did not rise to the high expectations you might have had. But if I may say boldly, the wrongko actually looks better than in this poor photograph. The four pins plus Alan's suggestion has made this epoxied joint very strong and I had no fear of it breaking as I sanded. What now needs to be done, is the application of the varnish. That is to say, if it is your suggestion that I varnish this wood. I recall reading that a Bugis wrongko should be stained red and then varnished (if I recall correctly). If you have more or other advice for me, please let it come. I await your kind final inputs. (Some of the pictures of wrongkos I saw seemed to be oiled or waxed.) Attached Images

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11th May 2017, 05:06 PM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Thank you Gustav and Alan. If the statue in the National Museum is also 15th century we cannot possibly be looking at buda keris on that statue. Another thing that interests me with that one is the selut that it used. Very similar with the ones we see in old bugis keris style. It is very interesting to see that ladrangan style is already around in Candi Sukuh (15th century I think). I always have thought that ladrangan is a more recent style.

12th May 2017, 02:47 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Rasdan, I don't think that we can say whether or not the keris in the scabbard on that statue is Buda, however, the fact that it is a 15th century statue does not automatically rule out the form of the keris. Yes, we refer to keris that we believe came from Pre-Islamic Jawa as "Keris Buda", but that does not mean that Keris Buda were never made and used in later eras. Even Mpu Pauzan made a few keris Buda, and lesser current era makers have also produced them. Similarly, Islam did not just automatically dominate Jawa after the collapse of Majapahit, it took a long time to get almost total domination. Even today, that domination is not complete, the people of the Tengger still cling to the old Pre-Islamic traditions, in fact in some ways the Tengger traditions reflect very early indigenous beliefs.We also have the Badui of Sunda. Then there is the artistic dictate that the carver may have used an earlier style to reflect what the rest of the subject depicted. The keris in the scabbard might be a KB, or might not, but we cannot even guess what the carver had in mind, based upon what we can see

12th May 2017, 11:43 AM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Thanks Alan, I just remembered that you had mentioned somewhere about this. Keris buda that were made after the pre-Islamic times and still produced at current time. Unlike other talismanic items that are still made to be talismanic, I think current keris Buda were made for the collectors market with just money in mind. For what reason in your opinion that older keris buda (between early Islamic and before keris collectors exists - which is another interesting topic) were made for?

12th May 2017, 12:58 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Not really for the collector market Rasdan, at least, not in the way that we now think about collecting. People at the top of the tree in Solo from the 1970's through to the not so distant past held the opinion that keris which were made in the style of earlier periods were made as a token of respect to the makers of the past. Thus, a keris of say, Mojo style could be made during the Pajang era, not as an attempt to create a forgery, but as a token of respect to a previous maker. Pauzan made a number of keris in styles from past eras --- KB's, betoks, Matarams --- it was never an attempt to deceive, it was always homage to past, and also to demonstrate his skill. I even made one keris in a past style, and using material that would place it as a past style. I did this just to show that I could do it. At the present time some of the most artistic keris of the current era have been made in the KB style. In respect of the idea "before collectors exist", I just don't know when that might be where keris are concerned. Bear in mind, Javanese noble men had very limited ways in which to store wealth. One of the acceptable ways was to store wealth in keris, this is probably the foundation stone of the Solonese tangguh system. Keris collecting and collectors have been around for a very long time.

12th May 2017, 03:13 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I think shellac will give you a nicer finish.

12th May 2017, 05:49 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Johan, That doesn't look bad at all! Certainly not a perfect copy and with some shortcomings for traditionally minded connoisseurs. More than adequate clothes for your keris though - you can certainly be proud having done this with a tough wood which seems to have quite nice figuring, too! Traditional finish for keris is shellac (no multiple layers needed); make sure to fill the pores with wood dust during the final polishing steps! The color is probably close to Kemuning limau (yellow kemuning wood); you could leave it as is if you prefer this color. You could also utilize some spare bits of the same wood for testing whether using boiled linseed oil first and shellac later will make both woods looking even better. Regards, Kai

13th May 2017, 12:16 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	That's actually not too bad Johan, you've got the overall form pretty good, it looks like what it is intended to be. We must never forget that even in the societies where these things came from, not everybody was a master. Your efforts to date are good Johan. I will offer the following:- 1) you can only have two sorts of lines:- a straight line or a part of a circle; lumps, bumps, wandering lines are definitely not permitted, and that applies to any sort of work of this nature. 2) the heavy ridge that interrupts smooth transition from the face to the top of the piece must go, the face of the wrongko from its lower edge to the top where the surface turns inward should be a smooth curve, in other words a part of a circle --- a very large circle, but a circle just the same. This "part of a circle " idea has been quoted as a dictum for as long as people have made things, but what nobody ever seems to point out is that it is really "parts of circles", for example, in a long curve you can get variation in the progression of the curve, each part of the curve can reflect a different radius, but even so, that curve must be a smooth progression, so that you cannot see the change in radius, the effect is that if the curve is extended it becomes ovoid, rather than circle. You point this out to a purist and you get told that an ovoid reflects a changing circle, or over-lapping circles. Anyway, however you look at it, curves must be smooth. 3) sanding could be taken to about 600 - 800 grit, and then the grain must be raised with steam and polished off with 0000 steel wool, until it does not raise anymore; you want a perfectly polished surface before you apply the finish. A steam iron is easy to use for the steam. 4) the traditional finish for a Javanese wrongko is french polish, usually the Javanese m'ranggis will only use a maximum of 5 or 6 coats, and then rub back with rotten stone, and finish with a particular type of rough leaf, the reason for this is that they believe too many coats detracts from the beauty of the wood grain. This might be true, because of the way they do the job, but a true french polish can enhance wood grain up to, and even beyond, a piano finish of say 16 and upwards coats. You need to apply a french polish in a figure of eight pattern. 5) I do not know what the traditional finish on Bugis and Peninsula wrongkos was. It looks like it might have been shellac, but in my experience old Bugis style wrongkos exhibit a surface that looks very like well patinated polished wood. Newer ones seem to have a pretty crude sort of varnish that sometimes lifts and leaves bare patches:- poor quality material, inexpertly applied and very ugly. OK for a row boat or outside timber, but not for cabinet work or an artisan product, and a wrongko is an artisan product. 6) if you do not want to go the full "traditional" route, Danish Oil or similar, applied with a rubber (fine cotton/linen pad filled with cotton wool) and run up to maybe five coats, polished off between coats with 00 steel wool, and final coat lightly polished off with 0000 steel wool, then waxed, will give a very, very close imitation of a nicely aged traditional finish. A good finish to any wood is in the preparation Johan. I avoid using fillers if at all possible and use the finish material as the filler, it’s a slower process, but in my opinion gives a much superior job. Do not skimp on the preparation.