Jamdhar katari - a theory

Marcus · 28th July 2016, 05:33 PM

I think this piece is the very one illustrated in Anthony Tirri's, Islamic Weapons, Maghrib to Mogul. I bought it from Oriental Arms.

Jens Nordlunde · 28th July 2016, 10:41 PM

I once researched the origin of the katar, and took it back to 10th century of Orissa. Search for How Old is the Katar?
I dont think it has anythimg to do with the knife in question I am sorry to say.

ariel · 29th July 2016, 01:06 AM

I have to agree with Jens.

Nothing in common, except for the use of words with a Sanskrit root " kut, kat" relating to cutting, slashing, slicing etc. Omani Kattara, a long-bladed weapon, having nothing in common technically with either of the daggers discussed here, is sharing the same root with them. A Roma word kat means scissors: and Gypsies stem from India.

I think we are not talking about anything structural, engineering etc: I think it is just philology.

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2016, 07:37 PM

Jens is right.....no similarity (obviously), mostly the only connection is via the usual 'name game' that so predisposes so many collectors.

Miguel · 29th July 2016, 08:18 PM

I am like Rick cannot see the connection.
Miguel

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2016, 08:40 PM

We seem to have a consensus ....interesting...like retrying an old case, this one over four years old......this time. Original research on these was about 13 years ago.

Jens Nordlunde · 29th July 2016, 10:32 PM

Hi Stan,
It was a try, and not a bad one.
What you have shown is important, you try to think in different ways, and that is very important, for someone who is interested in researching.
I dont know how many books you have, but like Nidhin (one of the members of this forum) said, "if you buy two pounds of weapons, you should buy four pounds of books" - and he is right, of course.

Making questions like the one you have, shows that you are on the right way - you have found the light - so to say.

Happy researches in the future.

Jens

Marcus · 28th July 2016, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Indeed this is a textbook example!

Figure 216A, page 296

mariusgmioc · 29th July 2016, 12:09 AM

In my opinion there is absolutely no similarity at all.
Completely different hilts, completely different gripping styles and completely different blade orientation.
Well, they are about as similar as Pata sword is to a Khanda...
But that's just my opinion of course.

PS: My opinion and Jens'.

28th July 2016, 05:33 PM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Text book example I think this piece is the very one illustrated in Anthony Tirri's, Islamic Weapons, Maghrib to Mogul. I bought it from Oriental Arms. Attached Images

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28th July 2016, 10:41 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I once researched the origin of the katar, and took it back to 10th century of Orissa. Search for How Old is the Katar? I dont think it has anythimg to do with the knife in question I am sorry to say.

29th July 2016, 01:06 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have to agree with Jens. Nothing in common, except for the use of words with a Sanskrit root " kut, kat" relating to cutting, slashing, slicing etc. Omani Kattara, a long-bladed weapon, having nothing in common technically with either of the daggers discussed here, is sharing the same root with them. A Roma word kat means scissors: and Gypsies stem from India. I think we are not talking about anything structural, engineering etc: I think it is just philology.

29th July 2016, 07:37 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Jens is right.....no similarity (obviously), mostly the only connection is via the usual 'name game' that so predisposes so many collectors.

29th July 2016, 08:18 PM	#5
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	I am like Rick cannot see the connection. Miguel

29th July 2016, 08:40 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	We seem to have a consensus ....interesting...like retrying an old case, this one over four years old......this time. Original research on these was about 13 years ago.

29th July 2016, 10:32 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Stan, It was a try, and not a bad one. What you have shown is important, you try to think in different ways, and that is very important, for someone who is interested in researching. I dont know how many books you have, but like Nidhin (one of the members of this forum) said, "if you buy two pounds of weapons, you should buy four pounds of books" - and he is right, of course. Making questions like the one you have, shows that you are on the right way - you have found the light - so to say. Happy researches in the future. Jens

29th July 2016, 12:09 AM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	In my opinion there is absolutely no similarity at all. Completely different hilts, completely different gripping styles and completely different blade orientation. Well, they are about as similar as Pata sword is to a Khanda... But that's just my opinion of course. PS: My opinion and Jens'.