guardless nimcha

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved...

The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa.

They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades.

For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Gurade

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved...

The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa.

They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades.

For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Gurade

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

You are of course entitled to your opinion as to where these originated, but it would be useful to have some hard evidence as backup. None of these are tourist items. They all predate tourism as we know it.
The only blade shown here which is Ethiopian is #2 which is discussed above as maybe being reshaped. This is the only one which would MAYBE fit with your comment that originally it had a Rhino hilt.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, thank you for the insightful notes and comments. It seems that the information regarding the movement of swords out of Ethiopia into Yemen with the object of the rhino horn in the hilts for use on janbiyya and khanjhars has been around for some time.

I can recall hearing this from a number of individuals focused on weapons from Ethiopia and Arabia from about 10 or more years ago. It seemed like a quite plausible explanation for the number of Ethiopian blades turning up in Yemen and apparently hilted in San'aa.

What is most interesting is to have your insights into the activities of the various souks and commercially oriented production locations such as Mutrah and others who have produced considerable volume of 'combinations' using available components. It helps that you are there to view these things firsthand.

I think the biggest dilemma for collectors is examining the many variations and anomalies in these kinds of contexts, and determining which are actual ersatz weapons against those which are produced as 'souveniers'.

The term 'tourist' is misleading and ineffective, much as the word 'fake'.
The Yemen has virtually always been a volatile place, and the coup's, insurgencies, civil wars and general turbulence has provided a constant need for all manner of 'ersatz' weaponry.
In all of this, various major powers have had in place forces in or near these regions, and since the Sudan campaigns, there has been a cottage industry for 'souveniers' for occupying or posted forces.
This is the situation for many of these kinds of items, though a 'tourist' market may not be present.

I think it is important to have input from all sides when trying to evaluate these kinds of conundrums, and naturally we all form our own opinions.
I recall years ago when a sword claimed to be 'Revolutionary War' was being 'discussed' with powerful observations from reputable individuals extolling its authenticity. That is, until a source came in to reveal it was actually a reproduction......when questioned, he explained that he himself had made the sword several years earlier !

While actually witnessing the production of swords using these kinds of components might not constitute evidence to some, to me it seems pretty compelling. Sometimes if that individual has considerable background pertaining directly to the business itself, it further enhances that perspective.

[kronckew]

my sword arrived this morning, the grip is ox horn. dimensions as in my post no. 1. sword is solid, nice weight & balance. blade is thicker than i expected. still quite sharp. 7mm thick at the 'guard' which is a 2mm thick brass oval that fits the grip shape. the blade is 33mm wide at the guard plate. distal tapered evenly to 2mm thick just before the tip. i like it a lot.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim, thank you for the insightful notes and comments. It seems that the information regarding the movement of swords out of Ethiopia into Yemen with the object of the rhino horn in the hilts for use on janbiyya and khanjhars has been around for some time.

I can recall hearing this from a number of individuals focused on weapons from Ethiopia and Arabia from about 10 or more years ago. It seemed like a quite plausible explanation for the number of Ethiopian blades turning up in Yemen and apparently hilted in San'aa.

What is most interesting is to have your insights into the activities of the various souks and commercially oriented production locations such as Mutrah and others who have produced considerable volume of 'combinations' using available components. It helps that you are there to view these things firsthand.

I think the biggest dilemma for collectors is examining the many variations and anomalies in these kinds of contexts, and determining which are actual ersatz weapons against those which are produced as 'souveniers'.

The term 'tourist' is misleading and ineffective, much as the word 'fake'.
The Yemen has virtually always been a volatile place, and the coup's, insurgencies, civil wars and general turbulence has provided a constant need for all manner of 'ersatz' weaponry.
In all of this, various major powers have had in place forces in or near these regions, and since the Sudan campaigns, there has been a cottage industry for 'souveniers' for occupying or posted forces.
This is the situation for many of these kinds of items, though a 'tourist' market may not be present.

I think it is important to have input from all sides when trying to evaluate these kinds of conundrums, and naturally we all form our own opinions.
I recall years ago when a sword claimed to be 'Revolutionary War' was being 'discussed' with powerful observations from reputable individuals extolling its authenticity. That is, until a source came in to reveal it was actually a reproduction......when questioned, he explained that he himself had made the sword several years earlier !

While actually witnessing the production of swords using these kinds of components might not constitute evidence to some, to me it seems pretty compelling. Sometimes if that individual has considerable background pertaining directly to the business itself, it further enhances that perspective.

Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post... The dilemma at Muttrah is so serious in the sword collecting world that it is rather like a spurious 1970 factory springing up and knocking out what look like perfectly legitimate weapons for the century or two before! Of the many hundreds of weapons for sale in Muttrah there is more than likely hardly one which is or could be said to be original. It would be a great test for the Forum members to spend an hour in there and to come out with a genuine item...I could arrange for the maker to meet the purchaser at the exit gate to explain exactly how he made the item... and where the parts came from... but of course I cannot.

I am not at all certain about the project sword which almost appears with a sort of Hangar hilt and it is not one I am that familiar with nor does it appear to be A Muttrah Sword... I hope therefor that my slight change of tac does not thwart that issue...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post... The dilemma at Muttrah is so serious in the sword collecting world that it is rather like a spurious 1970 factory springing up and knocking out what look like perfectly legitimate weapons for the century or two before! Of the many hundreds of weapons for sale in Muttrah there is more than likely hardly one which is or could be said to be original. It would be a great test for the Forum members to spend an hour in there and to come out with a genuine item...I could arrange for the maker to meet the purchaser at the exit gate to explain exactly how he made the item... and where the parts came from... but of course I cannot.

I am not at all certain about the project sword which almost appears with a sort of Hangar hilt and it is not one I am that familiar with nor does it appear to be A Muttrah Sword... I hope therefor that my slight change of tac does not thwart that issue...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Perhaps some pics of the swords in the Muttrah Souk.......? If there are as many as you say, then I am sure that Members here would be interested to see.......

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Perhaps some pics of the swords in the Muttrah Souk.......? If there are as many as you say, then I am sure that Members here would be interested to see.......

Salaams Khanjar1. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15083 where I started formatting the Muttrah souk content and where you will see almost identical swords from there... because that is where they arrive from Sanaa with the roughly made iron rehilts done in Sanaa...from Ethiopian blades having had their Rhino hilts removed usually to be put on Jambias ; originally European trade blades. Souk traders consign hundreds of blades at a time... sometimes thousands... and push out huge volumes to the mass tourist market mainly at Muttrah. This is done in a variety of configurations with Omani Long Hilts and others being subsequently fitted to extended tangs on any blade they want...in the workshop a short distance away. This has been done since 1970 when the veil was lifted on Oman as it rejoined the modern world. This rehilting became almost accidentally prolific taking on a momentum of its own and flooding thousands of swords out onto the worlds collections..Collectors know them simply by the Sooq name..as;

"Ah thats a Muttrah" such is their dominance as an invented breed over the past almost half a century!!

Sitting opposite the souk entrance there are often cruise ships containing 3 to 4 thousand tourists...and they pummel the souk with groups eager to buy. The projected runway reconfiguration at Seeb the main Muscat Airport is gearing up to take millions more tourists ...and the main souk is Muttrah.

I have a visit to Muttrah soon and will take my camera but you will find many examples on my work on Omani swords where they come into conflict with what are purely made up swords thrown together for the tourist market all over this Forum. Your sword/swords are Sanaa rehilts in the case of the rough worked hilts..though the blades are Ethiopian (European trade blades). These also often appear and tourists buy them in Muttrah. Since no one else buys them I tend to regard them as Tourist swords.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Ibrahiim,
Here are some of mine.
Scabbards are very old, the leather is torn and dry and the wooden inserts are thin, irregular, worn-out and dark, the blades are local, nothing European or Ethiopian, with local damages and patches of old patina.

Are they also new from Muttrah??

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

You are of course entitled to your opinion as to where these originated, but it would be useful to have some hard evidence as backup. None of these are tourist items. They all predate tourism as we know it.
The only blade shown here which is Ethiopian is #2 which is discussed above as maybe being reshaped. This is the only one which would MAYBE fit with your comment that originally it had a Rhino hilt.

Salaams Khanjar 1. I agree that hard evidence is worth observing when it exists. In this case the souk chain between Ethiopia and Yemen (Sanaa) and Salalah and Muttrah are well documented as being linked. Sanaa now, because of the war ...has no tourists... trades blades onward up the chain in huge consignments. These are first stripped of their rhino hilts and either refitted with backyard hilts as at #2 or are simply traded en masse on to Muttrah/Salalah. Something similar happens the other way between India and Sharjah souk with Tulvar blades....Muttrah fits the blades up with other hilts often extending the tangs to enable Omani Long Hilts to be fitted. Any other suitable looking hilts are thrown together with whatever spare blades are deemed potentially pass offable to gullible tourists passing through.

That was the reason why I wanted to show the Ethiopian hilts in my last post in their original form...

Thousands of such mixtures have been put together and sold there since 1970. So many have been offloaded to the worlds unsuspecting tourists that they almost form a sword type in their own right...The Muttrah!!.

Some are cleverly put together and certain museums in the area have been sold what appear to be genuine Portuguese 16th C Swords when in fact they are not. Oddly they are not technically fakes... a word many people don't like to use ...understandably... and since they are original fighting blades often European trade blades sent to Ethiopia... it takes some sorting out. However original swords they are certainly not...as the attempt is to pass them off for something else... So they are technically fighting blades re-hilted traded played with and manipulated for a better price and but for the fighting blades they are by any stretch of the imagination fake... or should I say faked...? clearly a better use of the word....and in an effort to sell...gain a better price... fitted up with hilts they were never associated with before.

Or as one tourist is said to have exclaimed.."Well if that isn't a fake its a damned good copy of one" !!

Come to Muttrah and see the hundreds of imported Ethiopian blades and visit the workshops that they are played with in... Sanaa did something similar by joining rough iron hilts made in basic workshops having stripped off the Rhino Hilts usually for Jambias... but because the souk there is largely defunct these re-hilts also get shipped into Muttrah.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.