Help needed identifying shamshir wootz blade

mariusgmioc · 25th February 2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Jim, of course, you - right. What I'm talking about - this is only version. But note that in my version, there are two questions to which none of the supporters version "Assadula - a real person," no answer.

To me it seems that you are not interested in the debate but are interested only in having your view accepted as the ultimate truth, and of course having the last word.

Why?

Well, first you asked about a documented mentionig of Assadullah as a real person but completely ignored the answers (the answer regarding the existence of such a mentioning related to the split helmet story, and my answers relating to the relevance of such a question).

Second, while we all agree that without irrefutable evidence, all our discussions are pure speculations, you akeep trying to press for your hypothesis as being the ultimate one.

Well, be it your way! You are right, absolutely right! And when I am saying that, I am referring also to your answer to my present comment, as I am not going to sink further into this "debate."

mahratt · 25th February 2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

To me it seems that you are not interested in the debate but are interested only in having your view accepted as the ultimate truth, and of course having the last word.

Why?

Well, first you asked about a documented mentionig of Assadullah as a real person but completely ignored the answers (the answer regarding the existence of such a mentioning related to the split helmet story, and my answers relating to the relevance of such a question).

I prefer to stick to the facts. Do you think that "the legend of the helmet, which cut the sword" in the retelling of 1954 - this is a serious argument? Did you read A.K.S. Lambton Islamic society in Persia? I will be very grateful, if you say, on a which manuscript makes reference Lambton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Second, while we all agree that without irrefutable evidence, all our discussions are pure speculations, you akeep trying to press for your hypothesis as being the ultimate one.

Now about the irrefutable evidence and their absence. Can you give examples of Persian swords of the 17th century (which have 100% provenance, vindicated by historical documents) which has a cartouche "Assadula"? I can not remember such Persian swords. If you know of such a Persian sword, please tell me about it. I will be grateful.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th February 2016, 11:25 AM

Salaams All, The designed name ...and continuation of it Assad Allah were used in honour of the person in Persian Lore...and History which is why no detailed history exists of the sword maker with that name...there wasnt one! The story of the helmet is purely mythical and an invention around one of the names. As outlined above these names were placed in honour of the sword quality and as a mark of that quality.

I am amazed it has created such a fuss...and one member even throws down his pen (is that not the same as throwing down ones sword?

) although as with all things if someone wishes to compile a data sheet showing the names as real persons I would be pleased to read it. Meanwhile for those wishing to observe the full weighing up of this apparent conundrum please look at and note ~ if it does not appear it may be accessed at the right side under recent blogs..;

http://auctionsimperial.com/om-the-...of-assad-allah/

It is in this publication by Oliver Pinchot that the whole 9 yards is delivered... You only need to read it.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ALEX · 25th February 2016, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

...
It is in this publication by Oliver Pinchot that the whole 9 yards is delivered... You only need to read it.

...

Ibrahiim, I totally agree!
Here's that LINK again.

Jeff D · 26th February 2016, 06:11 AM

I love this, old school forum debates. While we are at it can anyone find contemporary evidence of Homer, Shakespeare and Jesus...?

Jeff

mahratt · 26th February 2016, 07:03 AM

It is strange to compare the person who lived 2,000 years ago (Jesus and Homer), as well as Shakespeare , whose existence is not in doubt (as far as I know) with the mythical personality "Assadula", who was supposed to live in the 17th century. Amazing ... we know about Shakespeare when he was baptized, who were his parents, etc. Life "Assadula" (about the same time) - is shrouded in mystery

ariel · 26th February 2016, 10:49 AM

JeffD:

How can you even bring up the mythical personality of someone called Shakespeare?
I am surprised!

It is a common knowledge that William Shaxpere, aka Shagspere did not write Hamlet, King Lear and the rest of them. It was Francis de Vere ( or Francis Bacon, or Mary Sidney Herbert, the Countess of Pembroke, or Sir Walter Raleigh, or Amelia Bassano Lanier , a Venetian Jewess of Moroccan ancestry, or....)

"Shakespeare" was just a talismanic mark, a sign of quality used by a local guild of play writers. It is obvious that Othello and Titus Andronicus could not have been written by the same hand!

Multiple British researchers and theater personalities , including Derek Jacobi, can swear on local phone books and testify in court to that effect.

:-)))))))

Emanuel · 26th February 2016, 02:48 PM

LOL

SHAVER KOOL

25th February 2016, 11:25 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	"Mysterious smith or a mysterious myth" ? Salaams All, The designed name ...and continuation of it Assad Allah were used in honour of the person in Persian Lore...and History which is why no detailed history exists of the sword maker with that name...there wasnt one! The story of the helmet is purely mythical and an invention around one of the names. As outlined above these names were placed in honour of the sword quality and as a mark of that quality. I am amazed it has created such a fuss...and one member even throws down his pen (is that not the same as throwing down ones sword? ) although as with all things if someone wishes to compile a data sheet showing the names as real persons I would be pleased to read it. Meanwhile for those wishing to observe the full weighing up of this apparent conundrum please look at and note ~ if it does not appear it may be accessed at the right side under recent blogs..; http://auctionsimperial.com/om-the-...of-assad-allah/ It is in this publication by Oliver Pinchot that the whole 9 yards is delivered... You only need to read it. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 25th February 2016 at 11:48 AM.

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26th February 2016, 06:11 AM	#5
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	I love this, old school forum debates. While we are at it can anyone find contemporary evidence of Homer, Shakespeare and Jesus...? Jeff

26th February 2016, 07:03 AM	#6
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	It is strange to compare the person who lived 2,000 years ago (Jesus and Homer), as well as Shakespeare , whose existence is not in doubt (as far as I know) with the mythical personality "Assadula", who was supposed to live in the 17th century. Amazing ... we know about Shakespeare when he was baptized, who were his parents, etc. Life "Assadula" (about the same time) - is shrouded in mystery

26th February 2016, 10:49 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	JeffD: How can you even bring up the mythical personality of someone called Shakespeare? I am surprised! It is a common knowledge that William Shaxpere, aka Shagspere did not write Hamlet, King Lear and the rest of them. It was Francis de Vere ( or Francis Bacon, or Mary Sidney Herbert, the Countess of Pembroke, or Sir Walter Raleigh, or Amelia Bassano Lanier , a Venetian Jewess of Moroccan ancestry, or....) "Shakespeare" was just a talismanic mark, a sign of quality used by a local guild of play writers. It is obvious that Othello and Titus Andronicus could not have been written by the same hand! Multiple British researchers and theater personalities , including Derek Jacobi, can swear on local phone books and testify in court to that effect. :-)))))))

26th February 2016, 02:48 PM	#8
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	LOL SHAVER KOOL