Slim Kojuk Mrenges Keris Hilt from Madura

David · 30th January 2016, 08:02 PM

My immediate thought was that the carver was working with the amount of material that was available to them at the time. I am not sure that a hilt would necessarily need to be even slimmer than the already slim version you show to accommodate a small hand.
Here is my own "slim" version of this style of hilt.

Sajen · 31st January 2016, 09:30 PM

Hello Patrick,

I have handled a lot of this slim Kojuk Mrenges hilts over the years but can't tell you the exact purpose of this slim hilts and I never have handled a keris with such a hilt where I have been sure that the ensemble is original and already long together. Will post my example when the light it allows to take pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 31st January 2016, 10:39 PM

I'm not sure if it means anything, but my example is indeed on a patrem blade.

COYOTE · 1st February 2016, 05:25 AM

Thank you David and Detlef for your precious information.
As it seems, and I think it is absolutely correct, that the usual slim Kojuk Mrenges hilt will fit perfectly for small hands.
So, could this smaller model have been made for a very young child, not old enough to use it but as part of a ceremonial or festivities dress ?

David · 1st February 2016, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COYOTE

Thank you David and Detlef for your precious information.
As it seems, and I think it is absolutely correct, that the usual slim Kojuk Mrenges hilt will fit perfectly for small hands.
So, could this smaller model have been made for a very young child, not old enough to use it but as part of a ceremonial or festivities dress ?

I don't think very many very young children would have keris for ceremonial purposes. A hilt for a patrem seems more reasonable.

A. G. Maisey · 1st February 2016, 06:12 AM

Actually David, young children did wear keris. There is a reference to this in the Ying Yai Sheng Lan, and I've seen it in other places too. Even now, if a a young boy gets dressed in full formal dress, he will wear a keris sometimes. I think I remember that the age at which they began/begin to wear a keris was/is 6. A six year old Javanese child is quite a bit smaller than a six year old of European stock.

But this does not mean that a small hilt might not have been intended for a woman, or even for a small man.

Jean · 1st February 2016, 09:27 AM

This slim hilt has a normal lenght for a Madurese piece (about 9 cm) and a practical explanation for its small diameter could be that it was made from taring duyung (dugong tusk) which has a quite small size as compared to other local sources of ivory (elephant tusk and spermwhale tooth).

Regards

Sajen · 6th February 2016, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Will post my example when the light it allows to take pictures.

Hello Patrick,

like promised, here my slim example side by side with a "normal" sized example.

Regards,
Detlef

COYOTE · 9th February 2016, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Patrick,

like promised, here my slim example side by side with a "normal" sized example.

Regards,
Detlef

Hello Detlef,
Nice pieces indeed.
Thanks again for your help.
Best from Rio,
Patrick

Sajen · 9th February 2016, 06:07 PM

You're welcome!

30th January 2016, 08:02 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,281	My immediate thought was that the carver was working with the amount of material that was available to them at the time. I am not sure that a hilt would necessarily need to be even slimmer than the already slim version you show to accommodate a small hand. Here is my own "slim" version of this style of hilt. Attached Images

1st February 2016, 05:25 AM	#4
COYOTE Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil Posts: 27	Thank you !! Thank you David and Detlef for your precious information. As it seems, and I think it is absolutely correct, that the usual slim Kojuk Mrenges hilt will fit perfectly for small hands. So, could this smaller model have been made for a very young child, not old enough to use it but as part of a ceremonial or festivities dress ?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

31st January 2016, 09:30 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,646	Hello Patrick, I have handled a lot of this slim Kojuk Mrenges hilts over the years but can't tell you the exact purpose of this slim hilts and I never have handled a keris with such a hilt where I have been sure that the ensemble is original and already long together. Will post my example when the light it allows to take pictures. Regards, Detlef

31st January 2016, 10:39 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,281	I'm not sure if it means anything, but my example is indeed on a patrem blade.

1st February 2016, 06:12 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,188	Actually David, young children did wear keris. There is a reference to this in the Ying Yai Sheng Lan, and I've seen it in other places too. Even now, if a a young boy gets dressed in full formal dress, he will wear a keris sometimes. I think I remember that the age at which they began/begin to wear a keris was/is 6. A six year old Javanese child is quite a bit smaller than a six year old of European stock. But this does not mean that a small hilt might not have been intended for a woman, or even for a small man.

1st February 2016, 09:27 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This slim hilt has a normal lenght for a Madurese piece (about 9 cm) and a practical explanation for its small diameter could be that it was made from taring duyung (dugong tusk) which has a quite small size as compared to other local sources of ivory (elephant tusk and spermwhale tooth). Regards

9th February 2016, 06:07 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,646	You're welcome!