Balinese Keris hilt ID

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

To me, it seems probable that Marcus' hilt is able to be categorised as fitting into #6 category:- a work of art; of course, this does not necessarily rule out categories 1 to 3, but since this is a very recent hilt, inclusion in one of those categories does seem to be unlikely.

I tend to agree with Alan. Although Marius' hilt shows similar features to Alan's exceptional specimen, the craftsmanship is much poorer and there are some deviations such as the attribute in the right hand (which is supposed to be a vase containing the immortality fluid according to many sources) and the fancy decoration of the legs, etc. I attach the pics of another silver hilt supposed to depict Bayu also, it is at least 30 years old and it is interesting to notice the evolution of the design and workmanship as compared to Marius' recently made hilt.
Regards

[apolaki]

What are your impressions on this one in the center?

[mariusgmioc]

From all the posts and the knowledge I gained over the last few days, after hours and hours of reading and internet searching, I can sumarize that in this case one cannot assume with certainty who the figure of the hilt is. Although there are some aspects that may point it to Bayu, there isn't enough factual evidence to support it (as I found quite interesting and educating arguments suggesting the figure might be depicting Bhima, who shares several attributes with Bayu, his father). In other words, one cannot accurately proclaim something to be black or white when in fact it is grey.

I will go to Indonesia in April-May and I will try to find out more about this subject.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Although there are some aspects that may point it to Bayu, there isn't enough factual evidence to support it (as I found quite interesting and educating arguments suggesting the figure might be depicting Bhima, who shares several attributes with Bayu, his father).

Bima is normally depicted with a different style of hairdo (a curled crest at the back of the head), you can check it on Dr Google.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Jean

Bima is normally depicted with a different style of hairdo (a curled crest), you can check on Dr Google.

Thank you!

[Jean]

Originally Posted by apolaki

What are your impressions on this one in the center?

A common quality specimen made from copper and with a bit of age, similar figure as Marius' one but the attribute in the right hand is not clearly visible on the pic.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Several more.

Gilt on brass, colour under glass, estimate late 19th century

Gilt on silver, natural stones, early 1980's

Gilt on brass, glass & natural stone, estimate early 20th century

[Sajen]

Gilded brass with gem stones, I think that it is from beginning of 20th century.

[Sajen]

Kayu arang (ebony) with silver applications and gem stones, bought in the late 90th in Klungkung.

[Sajen]

Wood with gold paint and gem stones, late 19th century (?)

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Several more.

Gilt on brass, colour under glass, estimate late 19th century

Gilt on silver, natural stones, early 1980's

Gilt on brass, glass & natural stone, estimate early 20th century

The first figure seems to depict another god as he has fangs, his crown is in a different style, and he holds someting in his left hand rather that showing his long nails...
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Jean, there are some differences, and the remarkable (?) thing is this:-

the more carefully we look at these supposedly identical figures, the more we find minor variation.

Identical figures, or similar figures?

Who are they?

Does anybody really know?

With anything made in recent times, did even the makers have any real idea what they were making?

With keris hilts in Bali we have a number of influences, and since the puputans, those influences have been very strongly orientated towards European artistic influences and the need to earn a living.

Bali from 1920 to 2010 is a very great deal different to Bali from 1820 to 1910.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Does anybody really know?

With anything made in recent times, did even the makers have any real idea what they were making?

Maybe the few remaining hilt master carvers such as Ida Bagus Pastika or old Balinese collectors? Some members may have met them?
Regards