Silver Keris Coteng with old restoration

[Gustav]

As I wrote, because of the state of the blade in question I am not able to say, where this blade has been made. I have named almost only one still readable Ricikan feature, and this feature, together with dress, allow to think of Malay Peninsula as one of possible origin places of this blade.

Now I would like to hear some equally valid arguments for Java as origin of it, as, I quote, most of us seem to agree, this blade was originated in Java.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gustav, I do not believe that anybody has said that this blade could not have originated in the Peninsula, and speaking for myself, I am quite prepared to accept the possibility of Peninsula origin, or Kalimantan origin, or South Sumatran origin, or origin in almost any place in SE Asia.

However my opinion is that there is nothing at all in the make-up of this blade that would prevent it from originating in Jawa, as I wrote:-

"I can see nothing in this blade that would militate against a Javanese origin."

Jean has said:- "It looks Javanese"

Detlef thinks it looks like a Palembang blade.

Once again, simply opinions.

You have expressed your opinion that it could be Peninsula.

We all have different opinions, and to attempt to construct any sort of logical argument to support any point of origin, when all we have are photos on several different computer monitors would seem to me to be not only pointless in this case, but without question, impossible.

Personally, I don't want to change anybody's opinion, most especially since it seems that none of us hold our individual opinions with very much conviction.

I will make one further comment. It is not the condition of the blade , nor the erosion of the blade features that is the problem in any attempt to be too definite about this blade origin. The problem is that the blade has several features which do not really fit together very well:- the ada-ada is a high ridge that continues to the point, the blumbangan is boto rubuh, the gandhik looks like something from Lombok or further east, pamor appears to be sanak, the wave form is similar to that which many people usually associate with Pengging or even Pajang. In fact, we're looking at a dog's breakfast of various styles. Overall, yes, Javanese, based on pawakan, but one place where this assemblage of various styles does occur fairly frequently is Borneo, ie, Brunei and Kalimantan.

More opinions are always welcome, but let us not try to support an opinion that cannot be supported.

[Gustav]

Alan, thank you very much for your detailed response - my thoughts are very similar, if not almost the same.

Dear All, I think, we should try to avoid a swift attribution without proper looking at the parameters of blade. Of course it is almost not worth all the trouble in this case, yet it always is a good exercise.

[Jean]

Thank you Alan. I would like to add 2 observations:
. From the pics the blade does not seem to properly fit into the scabbard (sinking & floating into the slot and with a different angle), so this kris is probably a dealer's montage?
. According to a well-known javanese kris book written by Koesni in 1979, a long sogokan is an indicator of tangguh Pajang but we know how incertain it is...

Gustav, could you please show us a similar wavy blade attributed to the Malay Peninsula?

Regards

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Jean

Thank you Alan. I would like to add 2 observations:
. From the pics the blade does not seem to properly fit into the scabbard (sinking & floating into the slot and with a different angle), so this kris is probably a dealer's montage?
. According to a well-known javanese kris book written by Koesni in 1979, a long sogokan is an indicator of tangguh Pajang but we know how incertain it is...

Gustav, could you please show us a similar wavy blade attributed to the Malay Peninsula?

Regards

Jean,

please just use search function, the word "Malela", and you will find a lot of wavy peninsular blades with long Sogokan in UBB forum, which all are, of course, much younger then this blade and so different in style. Really old peninsular blades are practically unknown. Three interesting blades also here on the first page, for you particularly the last one:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=kedah


That dealer would have lived a long time before. I have seen the pics of it before cleaning.


May I ask - its Pengging or Pajang to you now?

Regards

[Jean]

Hello Gustav,
Thank you for the link to this old thread.
Regarding the origin of this blade and considering its poor condition & missing ganja, I am not asserting anything but just giving my modest opinion in order to initiate the discussion...
Regards

[Gustav]

Hello Jean,

I understand, thank you for clarification.

Regards

[Roland_M]

Some additional pictures of the blade.

I think the curvature in both directions is good to see.

[Roland_M]

Alan, I'm far away from being an expert for Keris like you.
My simple opinion is, that the blade is older than the hilt and sheath. The blade fits very exactly in the sheath, so I think it could be the original blade for this Coteng.

If this would help, I can make some makro-pictures from different angles.

Thank you for your very valuable comments.

I'm also very thankful, if you correct my opinion, with your expert knowledge.

Many collectors including myself have a tendency to admire their own blades more than they are worth with a more objective point of view.


Roland