the Kampilan exclusively Moro?

[David]

Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa

Although the kampilan is said to have been imported to parts of the visayan and luzon islands, is the Kampilan for the most part exclusive to the moros, as the katana is exclusive to Japan.

It seems theres not a lot of weapons being documented for the visayans and the low-landers of luzon and most pre-colonial weaponary such as the panabas and the kampilan are known to be manufactured amongst them either.

I deduce that this had to do with the lack of recorded history of them due to it possibly being destroyed by spain and america to keep the natives from being well armed.
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"There were two kinds of swords -- kris (Visayan kalis) and kampilan, both words of Malay origin. The kris was a long double-edged blade (modern specimens run to 60 to 70 centimeters), either straight or wavy but characterized by an asymmetrical hornlike flare at the hilt end, called kalaw-kalaw after the kalaw hornbill. The wavy kris was called kiwo-kiwo, and so was an astute, devious man whose movement cannot be predicted. Hilts were carved of any solid material -- hardwood, bone, antler, even shell -- and great datu warriors had them of solid gold or encrusted with precious stones. Blades were forged from layers of different grades of steel, which gave them a veined or mottled surface -- damascended or "watered." But even the best Visayan products were considered inferior to those from Mindanao or Sulu, and these in turn were less esteemed than imports from Makassar and Borneo. Alcina thought the best of them excelled Spanish blades.

"The word kampilan came into Spanish during the Moluccan campaigns of the sixteenth century as "a heavy, pointed cutlass [alfange]" -- inappropriately, however, since a cutlass had a curved blade weighted toward the tip for slashing blows, while the kampilan was straight. (Modern ones are two-handed weapons running to 90 centimeters.) It apparently was never manufactured by Visayan smiths but imported from parts of Mindanao, both Muslim and pagan, which had direct culture contact with the Moluccas. Like the kris, it was coated with poison before going into battle, and the fiction that the weapon itself has been rendered poisonous by some alchemy no doubt enhanced its market value. Fine ones were handed down from father to son, bore personal names known to the enemy, and could be recognized by the sound of little bells which formed part of their tasseled decoration."

Hi Maharlika, welcome to the forum.
Where is this quoted account taken from. It seems to have some slight inaccuracies as far as i know.
Firstly as far as i know the kris/kalis is not of Visayan origin and the swords i have seen that are sometimes called Visayan kris are only called as such due to their wavy blades. The kris is a Moro weapon and the Visayan are not Moro.
Also, while datu kris can have fairly fancy hilts they very rarely are bejeweled and when gold is present it is generally saussa, not solid gold. It is possible that this writer is confusing Moro kris with their Indonesian counter-part, the keris.
The kampilan is also a weapon of Moro origin, though i have seen Visayan versions.

[MaharlikaTimawa]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Maharlika, welcome to the forum.
Where is this quoted account taken from. It seems to have some slight inaccuracies as far as i know.
Firstly as far as i know the kris/kalis is not of Visayan origin and the swords i have seen that are sometimes called Visayan kris are only called as such due to their wavy blades. The kris is a Moro weapon and the Visayan are not Moro.
Also, while datu kris can have fairly fancy hilts they very rarely are bejeweled and when gold is present it is generally saussa, not solid gold. It is possible that this writer is confusing Moro kris with their Indonesian counter-part, the keris.
The kampilan is also a weapon of Moro origin, though i have seen Visayan versions.

Hello David, I got this quote from William Henry Scott's Barangay --Sixteenth-Century Philippine Culture & Society.

But to be more specific, from here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...8&page=1&pp=30

My questions are concerned on how it seems that the weapons used by the more animist regions in low-land Luzon and the Visayans seem to lack weaponry more suitable for fighting as opposed to their more Muslim counter-parts. Even those of Islamic religion in Luzon seem to lack those same weapons and my assumption is based on possibilities of destroyed evidence made from Spaniards/Americans to keep the people from being armed.

[Battara]

Mabuhay Maharlika Timawa,

To my understanding early accounts of the Philippines seem to indicate the kampilan was not a Moro creation so much as it was a common weapon in various forms among several island areas from Borneo to the Malaccas to Luzon to he Visayas to the Moro lands. With the advent of colonial Spanish rule, it seems to have died out among the Luzonos and Visayans.

Note: if I remember right, the Luzon version as shorter than the Maranao version.

And yes, the Spanish banned bladed weaponry in their areas of control (as much as they could) because Filipinos were too good with bolos - any bolos.

[MaharlikaTimawa]

Originally Posted by Battara

Mabuhay Maharlika Timawa,

To my understanding early accounts of the Philippines seem to indicate the kampilan was not a Moro creation so much as it was a common weapon in various forms among several island areas from Borneo to the Malaccas to Luzon to he Visayas to the Moro lands. With the advent of colonial Spanish rule, it seems to have died out among the Luzonos and Visayans.

Note: if I remember right, the Luzon version as shorter than the Maranao version.

And yes, the Spanish banned bladed weaponry in their areas of control (as much as they could) because Filipinos were too good with bolos - any bolos.

Hello Battara,

Very interesting output. Considering the sizes of the kampilans found in Moro land the seem to be from At about 36 to 40 inches, I'm curious as to what the size for the ones manufactured in the Luzon and Visayan regions. How common do you propose it was amongst the animist regions of southern luzon and the visayas, I'd imagine they weren't as naked when it comes to long swords as their indonesian/malaysian counterpart.



I would also like to add that igorots may or may have not made their own panabas's somewhat smaller than there moro counter parts with some just as big while others are smaller, possibly ban of weapons from Spaniard too?

[MaharlikaTimawa]

Originally Posted by Battara

Mabuhay Maharlika Timawa,

To my understanding early accounts of the Philippines seem to indicate the kampilan was not a Moro creation so much as it was a common weapon in various forms among several island areas from Borneo to the Malaccas to Luzon to he Visayas to the Moro lands. With the advent of colonial Spanish rule, it seems to have died out among the Luzonos and Visayans.

Note: if I remember right, the Luzon version as shorter than the Maranao version.

And yes, the Spanish banned bladed weaponry in their areas of control (as much as they could) because Filipinos were too good with bolos - any bolos.

Shorter? The sizes the kampilan usually comes in, is 36-48 inches (3-4ft) in length. Quite odd that the kris was evidently used in the Visayans while the the Kampilan is still a theory. Although, The Visayans use of Kiuo or quiuoquiuo which was “wavy” like the Muslim kris. The Calis was a sword used by the three regions. The kampil or kampilan was favored for close range fighting but the lack of the word in the vocabularios makes it evident that it was not made by both Visayans and Tagalog smiths. Presumably, they were made and brought in from Mindanao by Muslim traders.

But again this is also just a theory considering that swords like the katana was used by the animist filipinos from trade with the Japanese. Isn't it possible that the Filipinos had their own long sword whether it may of been the kampilan or something else? the dayaks had weapon that very much resembles the kampilan and they were also animist. Maybe its possible that the kampilan existed among Visayans and Luzon.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa

Maybe its possible that the kampilan existed among Visayans and Luzon.

Oh I very much agree with you Maharlika Timawa!

I also agree that it was possible that the Moros brought the kampilan to the Visayas and Luzon, and perhaps to Borneo, Celebes, etc, or it came from those areas. With such scant evidence it is difficult tell who started this blade form.

In fact, could it be possible that the kampilan form could have had different names depending on the tribe and region? This happens today among the tribes for the same sword form.

[MaharlikaTimawa]

Is it just me or is this actually a Moro or a muslim visayan as opposed to the non-islamic Visayans in the Philippines. Which would explain why he's carrying a long sword and why the womens head is covered.

[kai]

why the womens head is covered.

On early pics we often do see Moro women with the hair (and body) not fully covered.

OTOH, in Christian Europe it was very common for women to cover their hair in public, in some areas even till after WW2.

What were the local customs of Christian Filipinos in early times?

Regards,
Kai