Mughal Kard?

Tim Simmons · 29th December 2005, 11:06 AM

Please excuse my silly question, I was under the impression that food is eaten with the fingers in the Indian subcontinent. Only western barbarians cut thier food and eat with Knives. Or are these knives, from the the most wealthy echelon of Indian society, from the early period of trade with Northern Europe when each others habits were adopted? As to the floral decoration, I realise we are not talking about a consumerist economy more feudal, but there would still have been the need to cut your cloth according to your pocket so I would imagine some variation should be expected? I hope that does not appear very stupid. Tim

Jens Nordlunde · 29th December 2005, 03:07 PM

Hi Battara, I agree that what you have is not a shakshaki, but rather a kard – a small one but still a kard, like the one on the upper picture shown in mail #12.

I just bought ‘Bidri Ware’ by Susan Stronge. Maybe this book hides some secrets about floral decoration, judging from the pictures it might, but I will know when I have read it

.

Hi Tim, You may be right that the Indians did not use the shakshaki for eating. The only reason why I wrote cutly knife was, be course they in the Moser Catalogue wrote 'Messerbestecke'. It was most likely used when the kard was too big for some purpose or other.

Battara · 30th December 2005, 06:38 PM

Thank you Jens. Based on my research, your learning and on Jim's learning: a kard it is.

Now if we can just get that darned floral stuff down (though Jim has a point on some artists copying without understanding).

Jens Nordlunde · 30th December 2005, 10:42 PM

Hi Battara,

Yes I think Jim has a very valid point about the artists copying, as well as artists being lesser than others. All of this makes it very difficult to move on – it is as if you stay in clay to your knees. But let’s see what the new year brings

. Happy new year to all of you.

Battara · 31st December 2005, 09:49 PM

I also want to give some credit and thanks to Phillip Tom and Rsword for their earlier help in this endeavor.

Jens Nordlunde · 4th January 2006, 10:41 PM

Hi Battara,
Would you say that this is a kard - I would.

Battara · 5th January 2006, 02:20 AM

Jens, not only would I call that a kard, but a perdy one at that.

(again - nice enamel work)

29th December 2005, 03:07 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Battara, I agree that what you have is not a shakshaki, but rather a kard – a small one but still a kard, like the one on the upper picture shown in mail #12. I just bought ‘Bidri Ware’ by Susan Stronge. Maybe this book hides some secrets about floral decoration, judging from the pictures it might, but I will know when I have read it. Hi Tim, You may be right that the Indians did not use the shakshaki for eating. The only reason why I wrote cutly knife was, be course they in the Moser Catalogue wrote 'Messerbestecke'. It was most likely used when the kard was too big for some purpose or other.

4th January 2006, 10:41 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Battara, Would you say that this is a kard - I would. Attached Images

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29th December 2005, 11:06 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,958	Silly question Please excuse my silly question, I was under the impression that food is eaten with the fingers in the Indian subcontinent. Only western barbarians cut thier food and eat with Knives. Or are these knives, from the the most wealthy echelon of Indian society, from the early period of trade with Northern Europe when each others habits were adopted? As to the floral decoration, I realise we are not talking about a consumerist economy more feudal, but there would still have been the need to cut your cloth according to your pocket so I would imagine some variation should be expected? I hope that does not appear very stupid. Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th December 2005 at 11:22 AM.

30th December 2005, 06:38 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,373	Thank you Jens. Based on my research, your learning and on Jim's learning: a kard it is. Now if we can just get that darned floral stuff down (though Jim has a point on some artists copying without understanding).

30th December 2005, 10:42 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Battara, Yes I think Jim has a very valid point about the artists copying, as well as artists being lesser than others. All of this makes it very difficult to move on – it is as if you stay in clay to your knees. But let’s see what the new year brings . Happy new year to all of you.

31st December 2005, 09:49 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,373	I also want to give some credit and thanks to Phillip Tom and Rsword for their earlier help in this endeavor.

5th January 2006, 02:20 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,373	Jens, not only would I call that a kard, but a perdy one at that. (again - nice enamel work)