what mandau is this?

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Maurice, great notes on classifying region and tribal origins! Can you say more on the features or characteristics that so specify? Are there any published resources which might have this kind of data catalogued or addressed in detail?

Hi Jim,

it is the style of the handle and scabbard.
This "style" can be found in the Nieuwenhuis (1219- Leiden museum)collection for instance, collected by himself during one of his expeditions in that particular area.
Also other travellers collected the same kind of mandau in the same area.
And old photos with dayaks from that area wearing a similar type of mandau ofcourse also helps a lot.

Kind regards,
Maurice

[A. G. Maisey]

Maurice, my previous post was not an attempt to argue with you, I am not equipped to argue about mandaus, and my disclaimer at the beginning of my post says it all.

However, I can read, and what I have written is information that I have garnered from a number of anthropological works that I have read over a long period of time. I have only repeated what professionals in the field have written.

Yes, I agree that within the later Dyak community there were and are skilled carvers who worked and work for others, just as there were, and are, skilled weavers who sell the product of their labour, however, in the traditional framework of Dyak society the ability to carve was the male balance to the female equivalent of weaving, and as such it played an important role in the selection of a mate, and the continuation of the viability of the group.

It may seem strange that although I have not the slightest interest in mandaus, I should remember information relating to the sociological relationships of the mandau. The reason for this is that what we see in Dyak society is very probably the foundation pattern for most, if not all MSE Asian societies, and the position of the hilt and its personal manufacture in the traditional framework of the Dyak society does much to explain a number of things that have puzzled students of the keris for a very long time.

As for the age of the specific piece under discussion, I made no comment directed at that piece, and I make none now.

[Maurice]

Alan, I didn't had the feeling you were arguing with me.
And if so I have no problem discussing.

I have several good friends, who also have lots of knowledge in the field, and even amongst them one is a doctor/anthropologist, with whom I discuss often.
For myself (and several other Borneo collectorfriends), we stick to the old books and facts. As nowadays even in Borneo don't know anymore how things were back than. On a regularly base we see our private collection pieces copied by carvers (who probably also looked at the forums), and trying to sell them on facebook or other sources.
I even once had been offered a mandau I have here hanging at my wall!

My earlier statement about the handle- and scabbard carvers are from the work of Nieuwenhuis himself, who did his expedition in the old days (he was the first who travelled Borneo from West to East). He also was an anthropologist and he describes in his work how things worked before 1900.
I will try to translate a passage as good as possible:

"However the Kayans are foreigners in the Kapoeas area, they made dayaks from surrounding areas dependent because of their art, such as carved antler handles.
The antler handles carved by Mendalam kayans, were very wanted by others living in the Kapoeas area, and they paid richly for it.
There are more tribes who were able to carve these handles, but only the Kayans excel in this art and their decorative hilts were immidiately recognised.
Almost all men are able to carve simple wooden hilts for their swords, of which they used hard dark wood. But only a few are able to internalize a higher level in this art. And besides that, also it was only allowed to carve antler handles if the carver did make several expeditions.
The youth were allowed to practice carving handles on wood and apebones.
Besides the hilts, also the scabbards had been traded outside their area."


PS. I ofcourse was aware that as for the age of the specific piece under discussion, you made no comment. But I wanted just to mention it looking at this piece directly, because that is where this thread had been started, and as explanation to Green.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for your response Maurice, I'm pleased that you did not interpret my remarks as argumentative, they certainly were not intended to be, but could easily have been interpreted so, even though there is no essential difference between your remarks and my own. There was a difference in phrasing, but you have clarified that.

Thank you also for your translation.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for your response Maurice, I'm pleased that you did not interpret my remarks as argumentative, they certainly were not intended to be, but could easily have been interpreted so, even though there is no essential difference between your remarks and my own. There was a difference in phrasing, but you have clarified that.

Thank you also for your translation.

You're welcome Alan!

The Nieuwenhuis volumes unfortunately are not available (as far as I know) in English, but only in Dutch and German language, but it has some very beautifull old pictures in it taken during his expedition.
It would be worth having only because of the pictures, even if you would not understand the text. (I attached an image from one of the volumes, where you can see blades during manufacturing).

Kind regards,
Maurice

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Jim,

it is the style of the handle and scabbard.
This "style" can be found in the Nieuwenhuis (1219- Leiden museum)collection for instance, collected by himself during one of his expeditions in that particular area.
Also other travellers collected the same kind of mandau in the same area.
And old photos with dayaks from that area wearing a similar type of mandau ofcourse also helps a lot.

Kind regards,
Maurice

Maurice thank you so much for the courteous and informative reply, as well as noting reference. I have noticed over time that you have significant knowledge and exposure to these and a number of other forms of this ethnographic field, and your input here is greatly appreciated.

All best regards,
Jim

[Green]

Roland M;

Many thanks for the pics. But can you inform what makes you say that this is a headhunting mandau? any particular charateristics unique to this or just historical fact and provenance? would love to get further clarification.

Sorry to hear about the flu. hope you'll get well soon.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Maurice thank you so much for the courteous and informative reply, as well as noting reference. I have noticed over time that you have significant knowledge and exposure to these and a number of other forms of this ethnographic field, and your input here is greatly appreciated.

All best regards,
Jim

Thank you for your kind words Jim!
Just like all of us here, most of us are all interested in a specific area of collecting, although we all love swords.
For me this specific area is Borneo, so besides Borneo swords, I try to "collect" also as much information as I can find, and research as many old collections as I am able to...

Kind regards,
Maurice