How old are the katar types?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,
It does not matter if you have a katar or a sword studded with gems or not, what matters is, that you have an interest in what you have, and want to research it further.

It is always difficult to date Indian weapons, as some of them have been made for centuries, although in many cases the decoration have been changed due to different fashons. They have also been redecorated - which makes it more difficult to put a certain age to a weapon.

So what are we after? We are after early 'museums' from where we know when they entered the 'museum'. We have the 'Danish Kunstkammer', we have the Russian collections - but we also have the Clive collection.

Lord Clive did service in India from about 1744 to about 1760, and in his collection at Powis Castle in Wales, there is a two bladed katar with protrucions. Nothing is mentioned about the age or about the origin, but we know that it was in the collection before 1760.
So his katar goes back to the first half of the 18th century.

This does not mean that all protrucion katars are that old, but it is a starting point for a research.

Jens

Correction.
Robert Clive was not the only one collecting Indian items. As his son Edward Clive and his wife added to the collection. In 1798 Edward Clive was appointed govenor of Madras, so he and his wife went to India where they stayed till 1803.
This means that the year 1760 must be moved to 1803.
No one seems to know when the different items entered the collection.
Sorry for the incorrect dating.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,
It does not matter if you have a katar or a sword studded with gems or not, what matters is, that you have an interest in what you have, and want to research it further.

It is always difficult to date Indian weapons, as some of them have been made for centuries, although in many cases the decoration have been changed due to different fashons. They have also been redecorated - which makes it more difficult to put a certain age to a weapon.

So what are we after? We are after early 'museums' from where we know when they entered the 'museum'. We have the 'Danish Kunstkammer', we have the Russian collections - but we also have the Clive collection.

Lord Clive did service in India from about 1744 to about 1760, and in his collection at Powis Castle in Wales, there is a two bladed katar with protrucions. Nothing is mentioned about the age or about the origin, but we know that it was in the collection before 1760.
So his katar goes back to the first half of the 18th century.

This does not mean that all protrucion katars are that old, but it is a starting point for a research.

Jens

Correction.
Robert Clive was not the only one collecting Indian items. As his son Edward Clive and his wife added to the collection. In 1798 Edward Clive was appointed govenor of Madras, so he and his wife went to India where they stayed till 1803.
This means that the year 1760 must be moved to 1803.
No one seems to know when the different items entered the collection.
Sorry for the incorrect dating.

Hi Jens,

Thank you for your comments and information for which I am most grateful.
I have attached the photos of the Katar arms showing the inscriptions together with photos of my other Katar which has a more intricate design fo cross bar and more slender shoulders, it looks to be older than the Katar with the European blade and the one with the newer looking blade that I attached previously. Thanks again for your comments.
Best regards
Miguel

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,
The first katar you show id a so called garsoe katar from Sind/Kutch.
The othe rone has the typical dot markings used in Bikaner - but I doubt that it is from Bikaner. Please show the whole katar.
Jens

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,
The first katar you show id a so called garsoe katar from Sind/Kutch.
The othe rone has the typical dot markings used in Bikaner - but I doubt that it is from Bikaner. Please show the whole katar.
Jens

Hi Jens,
Thank you for the info on the katar with the chased blade. The other images showing the dot marks are in fact are on the two katars I showed you previously, these being the one with the clean triangular blade with two cross bars and the one with the European blade respectively, apologies for the confusion.
Best Regards
Miguel

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,
When you in the future show pictures, make sure that the friquence you show are of the same weapon - or everyone will get confused - I am still a bit confused.
Jens

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,
When you in the future show pictures, make sure that the friquence you show are of the same weapon - or everyone will get confused - I am still a bit confused.
Jens

Hi Jens,
Point taken sorry for the confusion. On my last set of photos the dot inscriptions on the arms of the katar shown on photos 2 & 3 are the arms of the second katar shown on my original photos and the inscriptions shown on photos 4 & 5 are those of the third katar shown in my original photos, trust this clears the confusion.
Best regards
Miguel

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,
You can sometimes see, the dot markings, on the side guards or on the blade, and some other markings on the weapon as well. these will likely be fro other armouries, although you can not be sure which of the marking are the oldest.
However a humble guess would be, that the Bikaner dot marking is the latest. If you look at where Bikaner is placed, quite to the north and in the midth of a desert, this is the likely end place for the weapons - but sometimes you are surprised.
Jens