Kineta Naga Sasra

[David]

Why don't you tell us what you DO recollect about this blade Bill.
The dress and, i believe, the kinatah, look more contemporary to me, despite the loss of gold. This type of kinatah work does not seem as skilled as i would expect to see on high court pieces (which i suppose is the implication of the red velvet behind the pendok), but it does appear to be real gold.
I've never been a good judge of age and the gold work on the blade doesn't make it any easier for me i am afraid. Is the greneng worn down, because the ron dha do not seem that well realized in these photos.
Do you remember if the stones are inten, crystal or what? Can't really tell much on that from the photos. The dress is beautiful. Lovely wood grain in the wrongko.

[Bill M]

David, the dress is new. It is my understanding that Javanese connoisseurs do not approve of old dress. I think the blade is older. I think the stones are low grade diamonds.

I am hoping that the seller will chime in with some information.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill M

David, the dress is new. It is my understanding that Javanese connoisseurs do not approve of old dress. I think the blade is older. I think the stones are low grade diamonds.

I am hoping that the seller will chime in with some information.

Yes, Bill, i believe you are correct on that. My response was not in any way meant to be taken as disapproving of the new dress. As i said, it's very beautiful. My only concern with this dress is the red velvet under the pendok, and then, only if this never had a life as a court blade. I may be mistaken, but it has always been my understanding that the red signifies a certain royal family status. This is at least my understanding when the pendok is lacquered red. Not sure if the same applies to velvet.
I believe inten are low-grade diamonds, but maybe i have that wrong.
I am sure that if you merely wanted the input of the seller you could easily email him your questions...

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by David

I am sure that if you merely wanted the input of the seller you could easily email him your questions...

Have sent a few emails in the past, but the seller has been unresponsive.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Have sent a few emails in the past, but the seller has been unresponsive.

Hi Bill,
The lack of reaction from the seller is not surprising if he sold this piece to you as old/antique.
My personal opinion (based on the pics only) is as follows:
This kris looks fully recent with the possible exception of the selut, the scabbard seems to be made from jati gembol (teak burr), and the blade with kinatah is madurese. The stones on the selut are probably yakuts (quartz) and not intens but only a jeweler could confirm it. And I agree with David that the pendok with red velvet insert is not at all a court type.
Of course I could be mistaken and other opinions are welcome!
Regards

[Bill M]

Jean, David, what do you consider as "old/antique"? Over 50 years? Over 100 years?

I honestly don't remember if the seller said it was really old. He did say it was a good example and I doubt that he would mislead me.

I like the keris and I realize that it is difficult to ascertain without having it in hand. I am not offended by opinions. I do not consider myself as an expert in keris and am looking for comments so that I might learn.

Please keep opinions and comments coming, I want to learn.

[Jean]

Hi Bill,
One definition often used for old krisses is "made before WW2 but no more than about 150 years old", corresponding to the nem-neman period in Java. For antique krisses there is much less consensus, it could be for instance "a kris made before the Mataram era".
Your kris is nicely made and very decorative and I fully understand that you like it very much, I own similar pieces also, see pic.
Regards