Help needed with a Mamluk kilij

[ALEX]

Roland, the key word is "similar". these two blades have common features, like most of the blades general forms kept similar for very long time, but they are centuries and continents apart. I am afraid the etching will not change anything except of improving the contrast of the pattern.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Roland, the key word is "similar". these two blades have common features, like most of the blades general forms kept similar for very long time, but they are centuries and continents apart. I am afraid the etching will not change anything except of improving the contrast of the pattern.

Alex, other very similar swords are in the book: "Islamic swords and swordsmiths" from Unsal Yucel, from Plate 100 to 113, especially on Plate 112 and 113.

Here are two Pictures of the untouched and uncleaned sword.


"I am afraid the etching will not change anything except of improving the contrast of the pattern" This was the second attempt, in which i tried out something new (etching with a cloth instead of a brush), the first was much better.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Alex, other very similar swords are in the book: "Islamic swords and swordsmiths" from Unsal Yucel, from Plate 100 to 113, especially on Plate 112 and 113.

Here are two Pictures of the untouched and uncleaned sword.


"I am afraid the etching will not change anything except of improving the contrast of the pattern" This was the second attempt, in which i tried out something new (etching with a cloth instead of a brush), the first was much better.

Can you post pictures of the sword from Yucel's book?

[A.alnakkas]

a similar pulwar

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Alex, other very similar swords are in the book: "Islamic swords and swordsmiths" from Unsal Yucel, from Plate 100 to 113, especially on Plate 112 and 113...

I do not recommend comparing pictures/images when determining origin. yes, this is great way to study, but the devil is in details that can be seen only with experience and the "gut feeling" that insues mostly from handling. I certainly saw Yuncel's book and some swords pictured in it. of course they are "similar", but they are not the same. this is a critical point I am trying to convey.

Look at what A.alnakkas posted above. There are Indian blades that resemble so called "mamluk" form even more. one just needs to know and feel the difference, it'd be impossible to describe I think.

Estcrh, see Bashir Mohamed book "The Arts of the Muslim Knight" for some great examples of Mamluk arms (from Egyptian to Iraqi Ottoman dynasties - 16-19th C).

[spiral]

Roland, I know its hard, but these guys are correct... It
has been faked using an old Indian/Afghani blade.

If you've lost money Id try for redress against the devious sellers as soon as possible. if that's not possible then consider it a lesson learned.

Looking for similarities as a beginner doesn't work... look to spot the differences.

Better luck next time.

spiral

[Emanuel]

Hello,

Starting this summer I noticed a seller on ebay listing a lot of apparently very nice sabres with wootz blade and karabela-type hilt.

While the wootz blades looked very good, the overall assembly looked odd. In addition, I have not seen too many legitimetely old karabela sabres with wootz blades.

I am also of the opinion that the above sabre is a marriage of Indian blade with newer hilt and guard.

It IS a nice blade though...

Emanuel

[estcrh]

So now that this has been settled, how do you know if a sword is "Mamluk", your talking about a period of hundreds of years which ended in the early 1800s when Mohamed Ali Pasha (the first Khedive of Egypt) wiped them out for the most part.

There must have been many different types of swords used over the hundreds of years that Mamluks existed. Of course the chances of a very old sword suddenly appearing would be quitre slim so what about late period Mamluk swords, is there a definitive style that can be readily identified as being Mamluk or is it all guess work and sales pitch.

I can not remember seing any late period sword labeled as being "Mamluk" that did not turn out to be something else entirely, either European, Ottoman etc. Anyone here have some knowledge of this subject?

[Kubur]

For the 19th c. we call Mamluk the copies of Ottoman kilij used by French and British armies, called 'a la mamelouk'...
Or the arms made for the Mamluk troups in Napeoleonic army...
Kubur

[Kubur]

I agree with all my colleagues said previously.
Indian blade 19th, and may be a Polish hilt (grip) from the 21th c.
They are really good in Poland to do new hilts...
Kubur

[estcrh]

"Mamluk" is a term that gets tossed around but what really is a mamluk sword, were are the images of known authentic representitive examples that can be used to compare other swords against.