New Jersey Ivory ban....

Lee · 15th August 2014, 11:24 PM

There will be the connected rich collectors and the auction houses and others in the art trade who will hire the required legal talent to deal with this absurd situation. ... I hope.

drac2k · 16th August 2014, 05:39 AM

I wouldn't count on it ; I think that is what all of the Indian artifact collectors were saying ! While we are waiting for them to do something, the government(s), advance their agenda. It is about control ; each incremental step they take , each erosion of personal freedom, are rights lost ,never to be regained .
Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Africans have died of Malaria because of the banning of DDT; it was said to have thinned the eagle eggshell.Does the math add up ? Is each eagle worth 100,00 lives? Last year the Norfolk Airport shredded 3 or 4 eagles,which it sucked through plane engines ;should we ban jets as well ? Each loss of a privilege has a "Butterfly Effect:"
"for the want of a nail a shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe, a horse was lost ............"

spiral · 16th August 2014, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

There will be the connected rich collectors and the auction houses and others in the art trade who will hire the required legal talent to deal with this absurd situation. ... I hope.

Interestingly a few years ago a big auction house in the UK kept selling whole mounted Rhino horns even when customs said they shouldn't, they stated the would win in court when it came to it, arguing about legal definitions..

Instead of taking them to court within 6 months the Government just introduced even tougher & more detailed laws that they felt unable to argue against.

spiral

Andrew · 17th August 2014, 12:32 AM

Indeed.

And yet, antique ivory is so much more common and ubiquitous than rare rhino horn...

Hope springs eternal.

spiral · 17th August 2014, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Indeed.

And yet, antique ivory is so much more common and ubiquitous than rare rhino horn...

Hope springs eternal.

Very true Andrew, us Europeans had wiped out c.80% of them by 1920.

And there more family based creatures rather than vast herds, that elephants once were.

Then if horn not stored properly over the years, it gets the eaten by the dreaded dermistids! {& of course always being consumed in old Chinese & Indian medicine.}

But the new range of American state laws seem to be allying ivory & rhino together?

Either way, as much as I would like nature to have a chance to recover a bit, {In truth not very likely to happen.

} I sincerely hope true antiques are not destroyed, they are part of history & in a some cases stunning & amazing works of art, as well.

I fear some will be with badly written & enforced laws though.

spiral

David · 17th August 2014, 04:04 PM

I see a lot of talk on this thread about destroy works of art made of ivory. Aside from this happening in China, is there any real indication that this will now happen in the USA? I don't see any such provision for confiscated ivory art in these articles, though i do know that raw tusks have been destroyed in the past. Is it likely that the US gov't will destroy these works when confiscated, or is it more likely they will turn them over to museums?

spiral · 17th August 2014, 06:18 PM

Good question David, in truth I don't know...

But here's some photos of the USA ivory crush last November...

Hopefully its all modern crap carved with electrical power tools, but I cant tell.

They would certainly have to build one or two very large dedicated ivory museums I think though.... Which sounds good to me, but of course would also helps popularise ivory, which doesn't seem to be what there doing.

spiral

David · 17th August 2014, 06:42 PM

Thanks Spiral. Yeah, even if newly carved i'm not sure i really approve of the destruction of art, though i do understand how new ivory carvings and the demand for them drive the ivory trade. I certainly can't find any reason to approve the destruction of antique ivory objects though. Of course the problem officials face is determining what is actually old and what has been artificially aged. The whole thing really is quite an unfortunate mess all around.

16th August 2014, 05:39 AM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,258	I wouldn't count on it ; I think that is what all of the Indian artifact collectors were saying ! While we are waiting for them to do something, the government(s), advance their agenda. It is about control ; each incremental step they take , each erosion of personal freedom, are rights lost ,never to be regained . Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Africans have died of Malaria because of the banning of DDT; it was said to have thinned the eagle eggshell.Does the math add up ? Is each eagle worth 100,00 lives? Last year the Norfolk Airport shredded 3 or 4 eagles,which it sucked through plane engines ;should we ban jets as well ? Each loss of a privilege has a "Butterfly Effect:" "for the want of a nail a shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe, a horse was lost ............" Last edited by drac2k; 16th August 2014 at 06:37 AM.

17th August 2014, 06:18 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Good question David, in truth I don't know... But here's some photos of the USA ivory crush last November... Hopefully its all modern crap carved with electrical power tools, but I cant tell. They would certainly have to build one or two very large dedicated ivory museums I think though.... Which sounds good to me, but of course would also helps popularise ivory, which doesn't seem to be what there doing. spiral Attached Images Last edited by spiral; 17th August 2014 at 06:39 PM.

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15th August 2014, 11:24 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	There will be the connected rich collectors and the auction houses and others in the art trade who will hire the required legal talent to deal with this absurd situation. ... I hope.

17th August 2014, 12:32 AM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Indeed. And yet, antique ivory is so much more common and ubiquitous than rare rhino horn... Hope springs eternal.

17th August 2014, 04:04 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I see a lot of talk on this thread about destroy works of art made of ivory. Aside from this happening in China, is there any real indication that this will now happen in the USA? I don't see any such provision for confiscated ivory art in these articles, though i do know that raw tusks have been destroyed in the past. Is it likely that the US gov't will destroy these works when confiscated, or is it more likely they will turn them over to museums?

17th August 2014, 06:42 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks Spiral. Yeah, even if newly carved i'm not sure i really approve of the destruction of art, though i do understand how new ivory carvings and the demand for them drive the ivory trade. I certainly can't find any reason to approve the destruction of antique ivory objects though. Of course the problem officials face is determining what is actually old and what has been artificially aged. The whole thing really is quite an unfortunate mess all around.